Lets talk about Mesa 2x12s (and more)

[spawnofthesith]

Mark IV headshell conversion is commences next week, and kind of want to get another mesa cab. to go with it. Before buying anything I was considering cutting and drilling in a couple pieces of wood for the back and the front panel area on the empty combo shell to convert it to a janky closed back 1x12, but I kiiinda have a feeling that since its not designed to be that its not gonna sound that great. Cheap and (I think) easy enough to give a shot. I also kind of wanted to grab another widebody. Looks like they only sell them with V30s new so unless I found another used one I'd probably put the c90 speaker in there if I went that route.

What are some of the differences/benefits/disadvantages of running 2 1x12s with an amp vs 1 2x12? I believe this is how @JiveTurkey rolls?

Anyway, on to the topic, also was kind of thinking a mesa 2x12 would be nice. There's 3 distinct options.. the standard 2x12, vertical slant, and vertical diagonal. I think I'd probably be most interested in one of the verticals.. always wanted one. Anyone compared the diagonal to the vertical slant? What kind of tonal differences with the speaker spacing would be expected there?

A little apprehensive about V30s. I had a mesa 4x12 years ago with V30s that I liked, but its been a long time since I've played a real one. IR land is leading me to believe that I might not really like v30s all that much. And buying a new cabinet with the plan to immediately change speakers sounds like a bit of a drag

 

[dbagchee]

I always wanted to try the 2x12 vertical slant cab - it seemed like the perfect balance of size and output. They are still pretty damn heavy though and the flexibility and much lighter weight of two 1x12s won out for me. I was able to pair either of the them with my 1x12 combo or split them out on stage if needed - I started with the Mini Recto 1x12 and later paired it with the Thiele - the mini recto cab is pretty tight and focused so the Thiele helps balance it with some low end.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I have gotten to where 112s are really just the shit. Tight af and super focused sounding. Love them.

412s are AWESOME if I can crank them up for that gut punch. Or if you Play quiet, but get that sizzle from the speakers but still just below the threshold where the beef of the cabinet really starts to overtake things.

212s to me are the worst of both worlds. Too heavy and still expensive when new if they are good without the tightness I like from the 112 nor the hugeness a killer 412 will put out.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I always wanted to try the 2x12 vertical slant cab - it seemed like the perfect balance of size and output.

I've been toying with the same idea this last week too. Something along these lines, either from them or build myself.
https://www.mojotone.com/Mojotone-2X12-Internal-Slant-Extension-Cabinet_3
A similar 2X10 oversized wouldn't be bad either.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I have gotten to where 112s are really just the shit. Tight af and super focused sounding. Love them.

412s are AWESOME if I can crank them up for that gut punch. Or if you Play quiet, but get that sizzle from the speakers but still just below the threshold where the beef of the cabinet really starts to overtake things.

212s to me are the worst of both worlds. Too heavy and still expensive when new if they are good without the tightness I like from the 112 nor the hugeness a killer 412 will put out.

Yeah. Must be the reason John Petrucci has only ever used 4x12's and 1x12's, and 2x12's only for his clean tones when he used to run the Lonestar....?

 

[spawnofthesith]

I like the 2x12s that I have (liked them enough to ditch all my 4x12s and haven’t really looked back with regret at all)

That little widebody mesa 1x12 just kicks ass though, and pairs real nicely with the marks


A thiele would be cool (especially considering that’s what my dumb ass thought I was getting at the time I got the widebody) but would pose some OCD issues if I wanted to do 2x 1x12s with the width differences. So duplicate might be the move. Of course thiele width would match the mark IV short head perfectly. But short head on widebody is acceptable

Still have my pipe dream in the back of the head running 2x mark minis live with one of them handling loops and being separate from my active playing….

 

[gearJunkie]

I have 3 different 1x12 cabs, 4 different 2x12s, a 4x10, and a 4x12.

I prefer my Mark VII with my Mesa C90 loaded open-back and Thiel 1x12s. The Badlander 100 sounds best to me through my Mesa horizontal 2x12 with V30s.

Good luck with your decision

 

[sleewell]

great thread idea lol thanks

i think imma get an orange ppc 212 to put on top of my 4x12 hahaha

 

[EOengineer]

I’m also a 1x12 or 4x12 onlyer. I’ve not loved any 2x12 anything ever.

If you’re converting your Mark IV from a combo and it has the 12L, just throw that bad boy in an oversized 1x12 and march on. Mark amps sound best through big, sealed cabs and the 12L is incredible in that configuration.

The mojotone oversized canyon cabs look legit.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I’m also a 1x12 or 4x12 onlyer. I’ve not loved any 2x12 anything ever.

If you’re converting your Mark IV from a combo and it has the 12L, just throw that bad boy in an oversized 1x12 and march on. Mark amps sound best through big, sealed cabs and the 12L is incredible in that configuration.

The mojotone oversized canyon cabs look legit.

The combo has an MC90… I won’t say sadly because I actually love that speaker as long as it’s in a closed back cab lol

An evm would be cool though

 

[EOengineer]

The combo has an MC90… I won’t say sadly because I actually love that speaker as long as it’s in a closed back cab lol

An evm would be cool though

I lucked out when I converted my Mark III to a head I had that EVM just sitting there doing nothing. I had no idea it would sound as good as it does. I DO NOT like Mark combo amps AT ALL.

Excited to see where you land once the smoke clears.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I was a 4x12 guy until I started placing a 2x12 on top of that, and really liked the sound of the 2x12 more so started using it by itself. Idk the 2x12 was more focused and less bloated than the quad but still had good thump when needed. Could have been the speakers, the 4x12 was T75's and the 2x12 V30s.

Some years later after those cabs left me I started using a 1x12 (combo) but it wasn't punchy enough so I'm back in 2x12 land where I'm pretty happy.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Mark IV headshell conversion is commences next week, and kind of want to get another mesa cab. to go with it. Before buying anything I was considering cutting and drilling in a couple pieces of wood for the back and the front panel area on the empty combo shell to convert it to a janky closed back 1x12, but I kiiinda have a feeling that since its not designed to be that its not gonna sound that great. Cheap and (I think) easy enough to give a shot. I also kind of wanted to grab another widebody. Looks like they only sell them with V30s new so unless I found another used one I'd probably put the c90 speaker in there if I went that route.

What are some of the differences/benefits/disadvantages of running 2 1x12s with an amp vs 1 2x12? I believe this is how @JiveTurkey rolls?

Anyway, on to the topic, also was kind of thinking a mesa 2x12 would be nice. There's 3 distinct options.. the standard 2x12, vertical slant, and vertical diagonal. I think I'd probably be most interested in one of the verticals.. always wanted one. Anyone compared the diagonal to the vertical slant? What kind of tonal differences with the speaker spacing would be expected there?

A little apprehensive about V30s. I had a mesa 4x12 years ago with V30s that I liked, but its been a long time since I've played a real one. IR land is leading me to believe that I might not really like v30s all that much. And buying a new cabinet with the plan to immediately change speakers sounds like a bit of a drag

Not to get too science-y, but if you have two 1x12s, each of which is 1/2 the volume of a 2x12, and you load the 1x12s and 2x12 with the same speakers, and place the 1x12s together in same orientation of the 2x12, theory says they should sound the same. Practically, it's usually pretty hard to find a 2x12 that isn't a bit smaller volume wise compared to 2x the internal volume of a great sounding 1x12.

Personally -- as much as I WANT to love 2x12s, I just don't -- I feel like they smear the sound without providing any real oomph benefit. 4x12s the smear turns into a magical swirl and the oomph benefit (even for my wussy 'but Fender combo amps are the best!' self) is LEGIT.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I always wanted to try the 2x12 vertical slant cab - it seemed like the perfect balance of size and output. They are still pretty damn heavy though and the flexibility and much lighter weight of two 1x12s won out for me. I was able to pair either of the them with my 1x12 combo or split them out on stage if needed - I started with the Mini Recto 1x12 and later paired it with the Thiele - the mini recto cab is pretty tight and focused so the Thiele helps balance it with some low end.

The 2x12 vert and new 2x12 diag are my favorite cabs from them.

I have gotten to where 112s are really just the shit. Tight af and super focused sounding. Love them.

412s are AWESOME if I can crank them up for that gut punch. Or if you Play quiet, but get that sizzle from the speakers but still just below the threshold where the beef of the cabinet really starts to overtake things.

212s to me are the worst of both worlds. Too heavy and still expensive when new if they are good without the tightness I like from the 112 nor the hugeness a killer 412 will put out.

I completely disagree with this, but only because everyone has their own preferences. To me, 2x12's are tighter and less flubby than 4x12's, but hit a lot harder than 1x12's.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I lucked out when I converted my Mark III to a head I had that EVM just sitting there doing nothing. I had no idea it would sound as good as it does. I DO NOT like Mark combo amps AT ALL.

Excited to see where you land once the smoke clears.

Nice. Yeah I was digging the combo tones initially, but there's really just no contest vs going into a closed back. Clean and mid gain tones are no problem but high gain is a bit of a struggle. Get's better with some serious volume going but yeah. Dropping it off at the shop building the headshell tomorrow


Definitely think I'm leaning towards either a thiele or just a second widebody. But we'll see lol. I have two battling OCD internal monologues going right now

Not to get too science-y, but if you have two 1x12s, each of which is 1/2 the volume of a 2x12, and you load the 1x12s and 2x12 with the same speakers, and place the 1x12s together in same orientation of the 2x12, theory says they should sound the same. Practically, it's usually pretty hard to find a 2x12 that isn't a bit smaller volume wise compared to 2x the internal volume of a great sounding 1x12.

Personally -- as much as I WANT to love 2x12s, I just don't -- I feel like they smear the sound without providing any real oomph benefit. 4x12s the smear turns into a magical swirl and the oomph benefit (even for my wussy 'but Fender combo amps are the best!' self) is LEGIT.

Wouldn't cab construction type + the speakers being isolated in their own enclosures make pretty major differences in sound (even with the same speakers) ? I can't really imagine 2 widebody ported 1x12s sitting side by side sounding identical to a horizontal 2x12 cabinet but I'm no expert

 

[spawnofthesith]

The 2x12 vert and new 2x12 diag are my favorite cabs from them.

Can you speak to how the tone differs between the two?

 

[paisleywookiee]

Can you speak to how the tone differs between the two?

Hmmm....No. Not yet. I know that's a lame answer, but I've not had a chance to A/B them directly yet, as I only just recently had a chance to play the new one. I will try this weekend though, for sure. It's definitely lighter than the regular vert though!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Nice. Yeah I was digging the combo tones initially, but there's really just no contest vs going into a closed back. Clean and mid gain tones are no problem but high gain is a bit of a struggle. Get's better with some serious volume going but yeah. Dropping it off at the shop building the headshell tomorrow


Definitely think I'm leaning towards either a thiele or just a second widebody. But we'll see lol



Wouldn't cab construction type + the speakers being isolated in their own enclosures make pretty major differences in sound (even with the same speakers) ? I can't really imagine 2 widebody ported 1x12s sitting side by side sounding identical to a horizontal 2x12 cabinet but I'm no expert

Simple theory: 2 sealed 1x12 cabs, no ports, each of which is exactly 1/2 the volume of a sealed 2x12, assuming that when you place the 1x12s next to one another the speaker centers are pretty much same spot they are in the 2x12...is acoustically the same. "speaker isolated in their own cabs" -- you've doubled the speaker cone surface area but also doubled the volume, so they're going to be feeling the same resistance in both situations. In both instances, having two speakers firing close together is going to allow them to be a bit more efficient in the low end (the closer together the speakers, the higher the frequency cutoff for that efficiency gain) making two speakers louder and having a bit more emphasis on the low end, compared to one speaker. Add 4 speakers and this efficiency gain in the low end is increased even more, giving even more low-end emphasis.

The PRACTICAL side off things is that, unless you're building your own cabs, you're unlikely to ever find a 2x12 and a pair of 1x12s where the total internal volume is same, speaker centers can be put in pretty much same spots, etc. Ported vs sealed and you're WAY outside the simple theory.

Can you check me on all this @yeky83 ? I'm confident in all of this, but maybe having two non-Jay voices saying it will give more weight.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Simple theory: 2 sealed 1x12 cabs, no ports, each of which is exactly 1/2 the volume of a sealed 2x12, assuming that when you place the 1x12s next to one another the speaker centers are pretty much same spot they are in the 2x12...is acoustically the same. If the boxes are different. "speaker isolated in their own cabs" -- you've doubled the speaker cone surface area but also doubled the volume, so they're going to be feeling the same resistance in both situations. In both instances, having two speakers firing close together is going to allow them to be a bit more efficient in the low end (the closer together the speakers, the higher the frequency cutoff for that efficiency gain) making two speakers louder and having a bit more emphasis on the low end, compared to one speaker. Add 4 speakers and this efficiency gain in the low end is increased even more, giving even more low-end emphasis.

The PRACTICAL side off things is that, unless you're building your own cabs, you're unlikely to ever find a 2x12 and a pair of 1x12s where the total internal volume is same, speaker centers can be put in pretty much same spots, etc. Ported vs sealed and you're WAY outside the simple theory.

Can you check me on all this @yeky83 ? I'm confident in all of this, but maybe having two non-Jay voices saying it will give more weight.

Sounds right, to my uneducated seat of the pants ears.

 

[Achilles]

Sounds right, to my uneducated seat of the pants ears.

Sounds completely wrong to my highly educated flappers.

Do some reading up on 'resonant frequencies' and how they relate to various enclosure sizes and even their construction.