Where should I go next?

[metropolis_4]

Totally fair! The QC form factor is a nice sweet spot (although I think the footswitches are a little crammed).

Yeah, I didn't like the footswitches at all. But I wouldn't be using them if I did this.

I really wish all of these companies would make one version of their devices with no footswitches for those of us who just want to add it to a pedalboard and control everything with MIDI

 

[dk_ace]

5k later

I hated my revv MK2, wonder how the Mk3 compared

More than 5K, but it would be an epic way to accomplish what he’s going for…

D

 

[la szum]

I'd like to posit that THIS level of self-awareness is what sets us apart from the animals (and that other place).

That and the goood-natured ridicule you will receive for being so self-aware and also still giving us crazy talk.

 

[Jarick]

Yes get the AFB and report back

 

[Whizzinby]

I thought hybrid mode was implemented?

That’s like “take your plug-in tones to go!”.

20 months later no plugins and the only thing “to go” was the QC.

 

[Mongillo19]

That’s like “take your plug-in tones to go!”.

20 months later no plugins and the only thing “to go” was the QC.

I wonder how much control NDSP has on that Sweetwater sales page. I honestly think they do it on purpose.

Just like they have old virtual device lists and consumers don't realize it's old and wonder where certain amps or effects are at. Then they just say "oh well it'll come eventually"

I was curious that the Thomann site looked like and no mentions of plugins. But it does say:

"With custom rig captures from some of the best producers and sound designers"

I can't think of anyone on the cloud who would be considered the best producers and sound designers lol

And

"The integrated Superior Modeling Technology enables a constantly growing collection of algorithms with uncompromising sound quality"

 

[GuitarDave]

That's not a bad option, I've thought about it. But you can only control the channel, master, FX loop, and reverb with MIDI. I'm concerned it will leave me with the same problem I had with the Dual Rec where what I actually want is 3-4 different settings of the first channel I can switch between.

So one thing to strongly consider is a hybrid rig with your Fractal/Helix and a great tube combo with an effects loop. To me that is truly the best of both worlds.

Some ideas I had fun with...and you may have already explored but worth mentioning.

• Use additional input gain/EQ from the digital unit before it goes to the front of end of the amp, and then attenuate the signal at the effects loop level to help balance things out. It allows you to get multiple responses from the same setting on your amp and works surprisingly well. Plus, so many classic sounds involve pushing the input stage of a distorting preamp section...it's worked well forever, often better than the amp can do standalone.
• Use the digital preamps direct to the effects return to add more variety. Essentially adding an infinite # of amp types/channels.

 

[Elric]

I really wish all of these companies would make one version of their devices with no footswitches for those of us who just want to add it to a pedalboard and control everything with MIDI

They call them rack units… No point in putting something MIDI controlled with no footswitches on a pedalboard.

 

[Mongillo19]

They call them rack units.

You aren't wrong lol

 

[creative360]

If this process is fun, then you go boyee. But the only time you’ve ever sounded happy (around the forums) was during your Kemper phase. [EDIT: afterthought, I’m remembering happy times for you in your earlier Fractal days.] Not because you claimed that it can do everything you’ll ever need a guitar rig to do, although it probably can, but because it seemed to be doing everything you needed it to do in the present.

A modeler and a board and an amp? .. That doesn’t sound like living. Two modelers? Blech.

Meanwhile the only setup I ever see around here that truly “makes sense”… meaning it has a pro utilitarian music-making vibe but with more than enough power under the hood to mitigate (to some extent) fomo, would be Stratrus with his GB HRDlx + FM9 rig. That setup could work with whatever modeler—a Stomp xl would certainly lighten the load. Mind you, personally I’m not claiming that I’ve ever been that sensible, but it does seem kinda ideal.

your modeler hereTM

 

[metropolis_4]

They call them rack units… No point in putting something MIDI controlled with no footswitches on a pedalboard.

Racks are a totally separate thing, I'm not following why that would mean there's no point in putting something MIDI controlled with no footswitches on a pedalboard?

If I've got a pedalboard set up with a master MIDI controller and I want to integrate a QC just for the amp models why would I want/need the footswitches on it that I'm never going to use? They're just taking up precious space on the board and they are completely useless to me.

It seems to make a lot of sense to me to have devices that are MIDI controlled with no footswitches. If you're using MIDI to control the device then there is no reason to have footswitches on that device.

 

[Elric]

Racks are a totally separate thing, I'm not following why that would mean there's no point in putting something MIDI controlled with no footswitches on a pedalboard?

If I've got a pedalboard set up with a master MIDI controller and I want to integrate a QC just for the amp models why would I want/need the footswitches on it that I'm never going to use? They're just taking up precious space on the board and they are completely useless to me.

It seems to make a lot of sense to me to have devices that are MIDI controlled with no footswitches. If you're using MIDI to control the device then there is no reason to have footswitches on that device.

I think from a manufacturer's standpoint there is too much redundancy to support a different flavor of device (there is going to be significant cost associated with that in terms of development, manufacturing and support) that is relatively large and just going to sit there and take precious space on a pedal board w/out providing the user with any footswitches. It may be your goldilocks thing, but I think most people would think 'WTF?' You'd have to sell it as like a desktop recording solution or something, I would think ot get enough market appeal to even consider it...

It makes more sense to do what L6 did with the Stomp and provide as many switches as they could on pedlaboard friendly box and then let users add MIDI control if they need more. In fact they ended up adding more switches to keep people from having to f*** w/ MIDI on the XL.

So, you already have an option like the HX Stomp if you want something tiny that fits on a pedal board and has MIDI, if you don't want switches ignore the ones that are there. :) The switches are not really costing you much on a unit like that and they broaden the appeal of the device to more customers.

For more capable hardware, the physical design requirements would quickly become a constraint if you want something that performs at the Full Helix/FM9/QC level... Seems like the DSP and I/O in a modern digital unit is going to require too much power, run too hot, have too much I/O and be too big/clunky to not have switches on the device to justify the size it is going to check in if it is going to marketed to the floor crowd... I would think the QC is about as small as you could go, so why NOT put footswitches on it at that point? They double as knobs anyway. Barring that you are back to rack units.

TL;DR: If there were a market for it and it justified the cost, L6 would have built one already. IMHO.

 

[Orvillain]

I wouldn't go Kemper personally. Tired old tech that is on the cusp of completely being out-shone by everything else on the market. Even desktop software now.

I'd be skeptical about going QC because of product support and a pretty poor track record for firmware updates and delivering features that people actually want.

To me then, if you're looking at hardware, it is the GT-1000, Axe FX III, FM3, or FM9, or Line 6 Helix.

 

[metropolis_4]

I think from a manufacturer's standpoint there is too much redundancy to support a different flavor of device (there is going to be significant cost associated with that in terms of development, manufacturing and support) that is relatively large and just going to sit there and take precious space on a pedal board w/out providing the user with any footswitches. It may be your goldilocks thing, but I think most people would think 'WTF?' You'd have to sell it as like a desktop recording solution or something, I would think ot get enough market appeal to even consider it...

It makes more sense to do what L6 did with the Stomp and provide as many switches as they could on pedlaboard friendly box and then let users add MIDI control if they need more. In fact they ended up adding more switches to keep people from having to f*** w/ MIDI on the XL.

So, you already have an option like the HX Stomp if you want something tiny that fits on a pedal board and has MIDI, if you don't want switches ignore the ones that are there. :) The switches are not really costing you much on a unit like that and they broaden the appeal of the device to more customers.

For more capable hardware, the physical design requirements would quickly become a constraint if you want something that performs at the Full Helix/FM9/QC level... Seems like the DSP and I/O in a modern digital unit is going to require too much power, run too hot, have too much I/O and be too big/clunky to not have switches on the device to justify the size it is going to check in if it is going to marketed to the floor crowd... I would think the QC is about as small as you could go, so why NOT put footswitches on it at that point? They double as knobs anyway. Barring that you are back to rack units.

TL;DR: If there were a market for it and it justified the cost, L6 would have built one already. IMHO.

I wasn't asking if there is a market or business point to it, I was saying from a players perspective I can see a point to it.

Over at the other place several of us used to talk/dream about this sort of thing. The "Fractal FM0", the "Kemper Stomp", etc.

 

[metropolis_4]

I wouldn't go Kemper personally. Tired old tech that is on the cusp of completely being out-shone by everything else on the market. Even desktop software now.

I'd be skeptical about going QC because of product support and a pretty poor track record for firmware updates and delivering features that people actually want.

To me then, if you're looking at hardware, it is the GT-1000, Axe FX III, FM3, or FM9, or Line 6 Helix.

I know you personally really hate Kemper, but however old it may be for me it's still the best I've ever used for live gigging. And I've used them all extensively. Performance mode plus all the physical buttons/knobs made it so nice to use in a live setting.

The thing that's appealing to me about the Kemper and QC right now is I'm finding what I really want is something that will give me the tones from my DSL in a more portable package that I can control with MIDI. Something just to act as a stand-in for that amp in live settings.

Of the two, I'd probably lean Kemper. The QC already has all the features I'd care about, so I wouldn't be worried about updates and delivery of new features, but that company still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure I'd want to patronize them any more.

 

[Jarick]

Would you keep the DSL?

What effects are you using on the Stomp?

 

[Whizzinby]

The QC already has all the features I'd care about, so I wouldn't be worried about updates and delivery of new features, but that company still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure I'd want to patronize them any more.

When they get closer to the prelaunch vision I won’t hesitate to grab one again. (Barring something more compelling being released in the interim)

These are guitar noise box companies. They aren’t politicians, world leaders or trying to solve cancer. If it is the best device (for you) then it’s the best device. (For you) Who gives a shit if it funds more Glamor Shots of the CEO for IG, or videos of Rabea playing guitar in a forest? If they get there, they get there, regardless of their cringe theatrics on the way. It’s not like you’re funding terrorists.

 

[metropolis_4]

Would you keep the DSL?

What effects are you using on the Stomp?

I wasn’t going to, but now I’m leaning towards keeping it. I’m having a lot of fun with it, and if I do go with a Kemper or QC it might be fun to experiment with it as a base for my Profiles/Captures

 

[Mongillo19]

When they get closer to the prelaunch vision I won’t hesitate to grab one again. (Barring something more compelling being released in the interim)

These are guitar noise box companies. They aren’t politicians, world leaders or trying to solve cancer. If it is the best device (for you) then it’s the best device. (For you) Who gives a s**t if it funds more Glamor Shots of the CEO for IG, or videos of Rabea playing guitar in a forest? If they get there, they get there, regardless of their cringe theatrics on the way. It’s not like you’re funding terrorists.

Of course not lol but with a majority of gear being so close to each other in terms of tone and capability, sometimes it's the smaller things that matter and push someone to buy one device over another

 

[JiveTurkey]

I know you personally really hate Kemper, but however old it may be for me it's still the best I've ever used for live gigging. And I've used them all extensively. Performance mode plus all the physical buttons/knobs made it so nice to use in a live setting.

The thing that's appealing to me about the Kemper and QC right now is I'm finding what I really want is something that will give me the tones from my DSL in a more portable package that I can control with MIDI. Something just to act as a stand-in for that amp in live settings.

Of the two, I'd probably lean Kemper. The QC already has all the features I'd care about, so I wouldn't be worried about updates and delivery of new features, but that company still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'm not sure I'd want to patronize them any more.

You've answered your question again.