What’s going on with Marshall??

[MirrorProfiles]

It’s not so much “go louder durrrr” so much ans them already making a range of options that tick most boxes, and covering every single use case is for the specific needs of a few probably doesn’t make much sense. Modern amps like JVM’s have perfectly good master volumes anyway so that’s not an issue. I can understand wanting a smaller size, but it would very quickly turn into something that isn’t a JVM.

Anyway, just found @laxu a new Marshall rig with a matching 1965A 4x10. Immaculate condition, just as it was when it left the factory:

 

[Orvillain]

This BS mentality about 100 watt big box amps being real men’s amps and 20 watt small box amps being “pipsqueeks” is the reason the amp industry and brands like Marshall are dying.

“Just use a 4x12” and “just play louder” are highly style dependent (believe it or not, not every guitarist plays metal), and a good mantra if you want to find yourself unemployed as a working musician.

If you wanna make nonce music, then use a Behringer V-Amp. Simples.

 

[Orvillain]

Specifically, the ‘Brown Eye’ part.

Ahhhh seen plenty!!

 

[laxu]

It’s not so much “go louder durrrr” so much ans them already making a range of options that tick most boxes, and covering every single use case is for the specific needs of a few probably doesn’t make much sense. Modern amps like JVM’s have perfectly good master volumes anyway so that’s not an issue. I can understand wanting a smaller size, but it would very quickly turn into something that isn’t a JVM.

Anyway, just found @laxu a new Marshall rig with a matching 1965A 4x10. Immaculate condition, just as it was when it left the factory:

View attachment 32827

I think we can all agree it doesn't look good. Hence the desire for smaller amps that fit on top of a larger variety of cabs.

 

[Orvillain]

I think we can all agree it doesn't look good. Hence the desire for smaller amps that fit on top of a larger variety of cabs.

Put the cab on top of the amp and stop being a bluesbreaker!

 

[Jambi]

Not really anything new but it is very good and that’s the point.

I agree. The same could be said for Gibson and Fender over here. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want a Jube

 

[Shredder777]

This BS mentality about 100 watt big box amps being real men’s amps and 20 watt small box amps being “pipsqueeks” is the reason the amp industry and brands like Marshall are dying.

“Just use a 4x12” and “just play louder” are highly style dependent (believe it or not, not every guitarist plays metal), and a good mantra if you want to find yourself unemployed as a working musician.

There is absolutely truth in it. Aside from the real man comment, there are reasons why tube amps are typically 100 watts.

If 20 watt lunchbox el84 amps were just as effective, wouldnt they have become popular many decades ago?

 

[greatmutah]

It’s not so much “go louder durrrr” so much ans them already making a range of options that tick most boxes, and covering every single use case is for the specific needs of a few probably doesn’t make much sense. Modern amps like JVM’s have perfectly good master volumes anyway so that’s not an issue. I can understand wanting a smaller size, but it would very quickly turn into something that isn’t a JVM.

Anyway, just found @laxu a new Marshall rig with a matching 1965A 4x10. Immaculate condition, just as it was when it left the factory:

View attachment 32827

You never go full T stack.

 

[metropolis_4]

There is absolutely truth in it. Aside from the real man comment, there are reasons why tube amps are typically 100 watts.

If 20 watt lunchbox el84 amps were just as effective, wouldnt they have become popular many decades ago?

Not sure what you mean, they did become popular. 5-30 watt el84 amps have been very popular for almost 70 years and they went through a huge surge in popularity around 25-30 years ago.

Sub-30 watt 6v6 amps have been very popular for the past 70 years as well and have had a surge in popularity in the past 5-10 years. It’s often said that a Deluxe Reverb is probably the most recorded amp in history and it’s ~20 watts 6v6

 

[Shredder777]

Not sure what you mean, they did become popular. 5-30 watt el84 amps have been very popular for almost 70 years and they went through a huge surge in popularity around 25-30 years ago.

Sub-30 watt 6v6 amps have been very popular for the past 70 years as well and have had a surge in popularity in the past 5-10 years. It’s often said that a Deluxe Reverb is probably the most recorded amp in history and it’s ~20 watts 6v6

OK. I am taking about amps that are typically made in a box and played into a closed speaker cab.

About a decade ago when I had lots of disposable cash, I was doing alot of recording with some big 6L6 and EL34 100 watt amps, and I also happened to own a 50 Watt 6L6.

When you crank the amp to the point it starts to saturate in a pleasing way, the 100 watt amps still have punch and definition. That have this very alive and screaming sound. They have more headroom.

The smaller amp saturates sooner and doesn't have as much headroom. If you are playing in a metal band with a loud drummer, and have lots of clean passages where you don't want any distortion, the 50Watt is not ideal. And it doesn't have the same punch either so it can disappear more easily. This wouldn't matter in the scenarios where open back cabs are typically used.

I'm not a recording engineer or a professional, but I did alot of experimenting, listening in isolation to miced speakers at various volumes, and there is a reason 100watts is the standard for tube heads. It is the right balance of saturation and punch. I've also owned EL84 amps and I have never preferred them. You can even hear on youtube demos that EL84 lunchboxes don't have the same magic as their larger counterparts.

Its the kinda thing that unless you have experienced it yourself, you probably won't know what I'm talking about. I get it.

 

[Frodebro]

OK. I am taking about amps that are typically made in a box and played into a closed speaker cab.

About a decade ago when I had lots of disposable cash, I was doing alot of recording with some big 6L6 and EL34 100 watt amps, and I also happened to own a 50 Watt 6L6.

When you crank the amp to the point it starts to saturate in a pleasing way, the 100 watt amps still have punch and definition. That have this very alive and screaming sound. They have more headroom.

The smaller amp saturates sooner and doesn't have as much headroom. If you are playing in a metal band with a loud drummer, and have lots of clean passages where you don't want any distortion, the 50Watt is not ideal. And it doesn't have the same punch either so it can disappear more easily. This wouldn't matter in the scenarios where open back cabs are typically used.

I'm not a recording engineer or a professional, but I did alot of experimenting, listening in isolation to miced speakers at various volumes, and there is a reason 100watts is the standard for tube heads. It is the right balance of saturation and punch. I've also owned EL84 amps and I have never preferred them. You can even hear on youtube demos that EL84 lunchboxes don't have the same magic as their larger counterparts.

Its the kinda thing that unless you have experienced it yourself, you probably won't know what I'm talking about. I get it.

Every guitar player should experience a 100W amp driving a full stack at least once in their life.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Every guitar player should experience a 100W amp driving a full stack at least once in their life.

I agree, though I do think Marshall, Engl, and even PRS (with the MT15) did the right thing with the big bottle/lower wattage amps. They just have more balls than the EL84 amps. So if someone wants a smaller, lower wattage amp, the Marshall Studio series is cool, as is the Engl Fireball 25. I still fucking hate the MT15 though.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Every guitar player should experience a 100W amp driving a full stack at least once in their life.

 

[Frodebro]

I agree, though I do think Marshall, Engl, and even PRS (with the MT15) did the right thing with the big bottle/lower wattage amps. They just have more balls than the EL84 amps. So if someone wants a smaller, lower wattage amp, the Marshall Studio series is cool, as is the Engl Fireball 25. I still fucking hate the MT15 though.

Along with the Studio JTM, I also have an HDRX 20 head and cab. And no way is that HDRX a 20W amp, it’s more like 40 or even 50W.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Along with the Studio JTM, I also have an HDRX 20 head and cab. And no way is that HDRX a 20W amp, it’s more like 40 or even 50W.

What did they use in the HDRX20? My shop never orders in PRS amps anymore.

 

[metropolis_4]

OK. I am taking about amps that are typically made in a box and played into a closed speaker cab.

About a decade ago when I had lots of disposable cash, I was doing alot of recording with some big 6L6 and EL34 100 watt amps, and I also happened to own a 50 Watt 6L6.

When you crank the amp to the point it starts to saturate in a pleasing way, the 100 watt amps still have punch and definition. That have this very alive and screaming sound. They have more headroom.

The smaller amp saturates sooner and doesn't have as much headroom. If you are playing in a metal band with a loud drummer, and have lots of clean passages where you don't want any distortion, the 50Watt is not ideal. And it doesn't have the same punch either so it can disappear more easily. This wouldn't matter in the scenarios where open back cabs are typically used.

I'm not a recording engineer or a professional, but I did alot of experimenting, listening in isolation to miced speakers at various volumes, and there is a reason 100watts is the standard for tube heads. It is the right balance of saturation and punch. I've also owned EL84 amps and I have never preferred them. You can even hear on youtube demos that EL84 lunchboxes don't have the same magic as their larger counterparts.

Its the kinda thing that unless you have experienced it yourself, you probably won't know what I'm talking about. I get it.

I’ve spent plenty of time playing through 100w heads. I’ve played some outdoor festival gigs with a Dual Rectifier stack. I get it.

But all of that is completely dependent on style. Not everyone is playing metal, and not every head/cab is designed for metal.

For some styles nothing sounds better than a 100w amp into closed back 4x12 cabs.

For some styles nothing sounds worse than a 100w amp into closed back 4x12 cabs.


The world is filled with amp heads of all wattages played into all manner of cabs. 100w is not the standard, it’s one of many options. I’ve owned a few 5w heads that I’ve played through closed back cabs and they sounded great for what I was using them for.

Different tools for different jobs.


FWIW I’ve always preferred the 50w Marshalls over the 100w. It’s a feel/response thing.

 

[Frodebro]

What did they use in the HDRX20? My shop never orders in PRS amps anymore.

5881s

 

[la szum]

I’ve spent plenty of time playing through 100w heads. I’ve played some outdoor festival gigs with a Dual Rectifier stack. I get it.

But all of that is completely dependent on style. Not everyone is playing metal, and not every head/cab is designed for metal.

For some styles nothing sounds better than a 100w amp into closed back 4x12 cabs.

For some styles nothing sounds worse than a 100w amp into closed back 4x12 cabs.


The world is filled with amp heads of all wattages played into all manner of cabs. 100w is not the standard, it’s one of many options. I’ve owned a few 5w heads that I’ve played through closed back cabs and they sounded great for what I was using them for.

Different tools for different jobs.


FWIW I’ve always preferred the 50w Marshalls over the 100w. It’s a feel/response thing.

 

[JiveTurkey]

BUT THE MOST FUN IS USING THE 137LB CHAINSAW TO CUT A BLADE OF GRASS!!!!!

 

[Shredder777]

This BS mentality about 100 watt big box amps being real men’s amps and 20 watt small box amps being “pipsqueeks” is the reason the amp industry and brands like Marshall are dying.

I'm going to quote you again, the original post that I responded to when I waded into this debate.

Aside from the "real men" comment, there are absolutely reasons that 100watt amps are a standard. 20Watt or 50watt amps when trying to accomplish the same styles that 100watt amps are renouned for, typically come up short. Amps weren't made with 100 watts "just because". Our whole perception of what consitutes good tone has been shaped by 100 watt marshalls. They sound amazing.

I don't believe a "BS Mentality" has anything to do with "the reason the amp industry and brands like Marshall are dying." If anything, that "BS Mentality" would favor Marshall.

Less people are in bands and just playing at home. Modeling has gotten fantastic. A smaller percent of people "need" a large amp. Those are the reasons, if any.

All these lunchbox heads aren't an improvement, they are just acknowledging that they can reach more hobby players who want to feel like they are playing the real thing. If you can charge 1500 for a small version of the amp you will still get sales, and it will let you charge 3000 for the big boy version.

My thinking is that I would always choose a 100watt version over something smaller, especially with availability of reactive loads. If I'm gigging, I will pick modeling and a lightweight FR system. Those 20watt heads are a compromise in too many ways.