(UPDATED for new FW!) EVH amp vs Axe Fx, QC and TMP...

[texhex]

It’s a good thing I have an authenticator on my account over at TOP. The pause it takes me to type that in just saved me from posting something really shitty snarky.

 

[norminal]

So this is what a "bug" looks like?

View attachment 13257

 

[Elf]

So this is what a "bug" looks like?

View attachment 13257

Can someone explain to me please what the graph represents and why product “F” is worse?

 

[norminal]

Can someone explain to me please what the graph represents and why product “F” is worse?

 

[SwirlyMaple]

Can someone explain to me please what the graph represents and why product “F” is worse?

It’s a graph of how loud aliasing noise is relative to a given input. At the right of the graph, centered around 10kHz, you can see a rectangular peak. That is the output from an input waveform, also centered around 10kHz.. If you look closely, you can see that both plot traces have the same level there.

The stuff around it is undesirable noise due to aliasing. It’s unavoidable because higher-order harmonics are produced by tube distortion, which go beyond our range of hearing. Because of this, even 44.1kHz or 48kHz sampling frequencies are not enough to resolve those peaks, and since you’re not sampling enough points on them to reconstruct them properly, the resulting waveform ends up looking like one of a lower frequency. This is called foldover because the high frequencies “fold over” and become lower frequencies due to insufficient sampling.

All you really need to understand, though, is that the plot on the sides of that 10kHz spot should drop down as low as possible. The lower it is, the less audible any aliasing artifacts will be. With it sufficiently low below the intended output, you won’t be able to discern the aliasing at all. The AxeFX does really well here — the aliasing noise is so low that it’s probably imperceptible. The other unit, unfortunately, has pretty significant and likely audible aliasing.

 

[James Freeman]

Also, aliasing noise is cumulative, ie. running a drive model into an overdriven amp will significantly increase aliasing which is typically sounds like white noise or hiss at higher frequencies or in some cases like chirping noises.
Also, real amps and pedals (analog) have no aliasing, it's only exists in the digital domain, just in case anyone wonders.

 

[the-trooper]

The other unit, unfortunately, has pretty significant and likely audible aliasing.

Wondering what unit could that be, and is it a pro unit or not. Guess we'll never know.

 

[Whizzinby]

Can someone explain to me please what the graph represents and why product “F” is worse?

Aliasing is bad

 

[Los-D]

For me aliasing usually translates to ear fatigue after long playing sessions. Some modelers/plugins are (way) worse offenders than others.

 

[Elf]

It’s a graph of how loud aliasing noise is relative to a given input. At the right of the graph, centered around 10kHz, you can see a rectangular peak. That is the output from an input waveform, also centered around 10kHz.. …

Thanks that makes so much sense now!

 

[riffy]

I did not beta test this one either.

 

[ejecta]

Borrowed a QC from my friend again because of the OP video comparison.

 

[GTR37]

Borrowed a QC from my friend again because of the OP video comparison.

There are some good tones in there for sure The Freidman HBE was stellar I also thought the 800 and Silver Jub were great as was the 5153 , if your not a huge fx guy you can get by the delays and verbs are more than decent

 

[fazer]

So you have proved that at your chosen particular setting, in a blind test, it’s difficult or impossible for people to tell the difference between them. How is that relevant to guitarists who play these models at home, feeling the interaction and working at different amp settings? To me this type of video is really just helpful as a copout for organisations who would rather not bother to investigate the problem in more detail and fix the issue for their customers.

 

[GuitarJon]

So you have proved that at your chosen particular setting, in a blind test, it’s difficult or impossible for people to tell the difference between them. How is that relevant to guitarists who play these models at home, feeling the interaction and working at different amp settings? To me this type of video is really just helpful as a copout for organisations who would rather not bother to investigate the problem in more detail and fix the issue for their customers.

Uuuuhh what? Gotta love the conspiracy theories!

 

[Orvillain]

So you have proved that at your chosen particular setting, in a blind test, it’s difficult or impossible for people to tell the difference between them. How is that relevant to guitarists who play these models at home, feeling the interaction and working at different amp settings? To me this type of video is really just helpful as a copout for organisations who would rather not bother to investigate the problem in more detail and fix the issue for their customers.

Fender have already said they're going to investigate it, so what are you talking about???

 

[MirrorProfiles]

guessing he’s basically saying “a stopped clock is right twice a day” - at certain (very different) settings you can make the Helix 2204 sound pretty close, but that doesn’t make it a good representation of that circuit.

I don’t think Line 6 have anything to cop out of on that one - it presumably sounds like their reference amp. The issue is with the reference amp rather than a mistake with the algorithm. If there was a “mistake” it’s that the circuit wasn’t verified/checked before including it, or that they purposefully chose it over other units despite it not being the right circuit

 

[GuitarJon]

Fwiw, most of the controls on a JCM800 react much more subtly than on some more modern amps. So what may seem like a very drastic move is probably much more subtle to the ear than you might think. Also, amp controls are there to be used.

 

[James Freeman]

I hope they don't keep the name "Brit 2204" it's absolutely nothing alike, very misleading and even damaging to the brand, impo.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Fwiw, most of the controls on a JCM800 react much more subtly than on some more modern amps. So what may seem like a very drastic move is probably much more subtle to the ear than you might think. Also, amp controls are there to be used.

with more gain there is more signal going into the tone stack and it has more effect. It’s why going from a 1959->JCM 800->JCM800 with a hot mod progressively makes the tone stack go from doing very little to being a lot more responsive, even though they all use the same tonestack values.

The tonestack controls alone in the Brit 2204 model can’t make it sound and behave like a bone stock 2204 circuit. There is SOME overlap at higher gain settings when the bright cap is out of the circuit, but it requires getting your hands dirty. I’ve done videos like Jon’s where it can sound passable but it still absolutely needs resolving in Helix (with a new model…).