Tonex Pedal....It's REAL

[mbenigni]

I believe it'll be interesting to see how it holds up capturing more obscure amps that Kemper has slight trouble "nailing" the gain structuring exactly, e.g. old Ampeg guitar amps, but also thinking of LAB Series, Sunn o)), Acoustic, Peavey Musician/Standard etc.

(He rates the Ampeg a 10/10. I personally thought it was the furthest off from the original amp - too gainy, too thin and trebly, etc. But I imagine you could tweak it right back in line.)

 

[dronerstone]

Yup, definitely the video I thought of. Seems good so far!

 

[dk_ace]

I can tell you that I captured a 2018 BE-100 last night. The Kemper always struggled to get an accurate Profile of this amp, Tonex nailed it. Although the Tonex capture had more gain and I had to back gain down a bit on the capture but it sounds more like the amp than the Kemper Profile.

Tonex does not roll of as well as the amp. Interestingly enough the AXE model of this amp rolls of extremely close to the real amp and the Kemper roll off is totally different.

Comparing all three of these (Kemper, AXE, Tonex) back to back to back against the real amp is really interesting. The AXE III models are so well represented using the latest Firmware on the AXE. What a testament to Cliff Chase and FAS, the models are just outstanding at this point.

Software is the key to all of these products. Kemper never updates their core Profiling algorithm so the same Profile you made in 2012 sounds just like the one you make today, great, good or bleh. FAS updates their software constantly and while you don't have to update, if you don't you don't get the goodies. You also have to literally "redo" ALL of your amp blocks in ALL of your presets when there is a major update. FAS customers put up with this because the updates make the product better.

The Kemper Rig Manager BLOWS TONEX AWAY in my opinion. AXE Edit is the single best device editor and device manager I've ever used, very close 2nd to Line6 and HX Edit.

None of the aforementioned products have a License Manager... but I understand why IK needs/wants this, although not so much with the Pedal other than they are selling you the 1000 captures they have made in Tonex Max, however the Kemper also comes with 100's of Rigs so...

The $399 price tag of the Tonex pedal and included Tonex Max/Amplitube 5 make it an incredible value and easy to overlook some of the negatives but time will tell how well Tonex and the pedal hold up.

Hmmm, I live and die by the way a model reacts to my picking dynamics and guitar volume control. This may not be for me, might be better to stick with Helix.

D

 

[James Freeman]

Rabea Massaad?
Pete Thorn?
Riffs & Beards?
Paul Davids?
Rhett Shull?

 

[texhex]

Hmmm, I live and die by the way a model reacts to my picking dynamics and guitar volume control. This may not be for me, might be better to stick with Helix.

D

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not horrible. Totally usable.

 

[madmarcus1960]

...annnnnnd it's up on ToneNet. Or at the link below. J_Turkey Badlander 50. No cab. So add your own IR or run it through an amp and cab. You can goose it up with more gain or hit it with pedals and it sound quite nice for a first go round. I think?

JT Badlander 50

Had fun this morning playing thru your Badlander capture. Used a YA Fende2 2x12 cab IR. Good job!

 

[dk_ace]

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not horrible. Totally usable.

But I already have helix that does it great, wouldn’t want to downgrade in that regard. If I were using this for recording it wouldn’t matter much, but I’m using it for live work where I would rather rely on my picking and volume knob to save lots of tap dancing for more/less gain.

Still waiting to see how the dust settles on this thing. The clips sound good, but the user feedback is a pretty mixed bag. I think it’s an awesome development, just not sure it’s something I really need personally.

D

 

[Sascha Franck]

Tonex does not roll of as well as the amp.

Did you try with the software or with the pedal as well?

 

[Sascha Franck]

(He rates the Ampeg a 10/10. I personally thought it was the furthest off from the original amp - too gainy, too thin and trebly, etc. But I imagine you could tweak it right back in line.)

I think this was quite impressive all around, especially considering what I'd have in mind to do with any such a capturing device. Regarding copies of whatever amps, I don't think I really need anything else ever again (my needs are quite modest and I also often just prefer to slap a drive pedal in front, so there's almost limitless options anyway), but I'd like to have some more uncommon sounds at my disposal, too. For example, that Minimarshall-Wish-amp would totally float my boat in some recording situations.

 

[texhex]

Did you try with the software or with the pedal as well?

Pedal only.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Pedal only.

Thanks.
Hm, ok then, guess I'll have to try for myself one day. Playing dynamics are pretty important for me, too.

 

[Elric]

Rabea Massaad?
Pete Thorn?
Riffs & Beards?
Paul Davids?
Rhett Shull?

Are you watching a 'modeler wars' episode and muttering to yourself again?

 

[Lysander]

Are you watching a 'modeler wars' episode and muttering to yourself again?

Pffft, that show is so passé.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I’m surprised that the pedal was released with the IR level issue still present. This has been the case with the ToneX software since day one - if you use a direct model+IR it’s much quieter than a capture that included a cab and mic.

Would have been a good one to fix prior to the pedal launching IMO.

IK are absolutely not known for modern and well thought out GUI’s (check out amplitube/sampletank/etc). They have amazing tech in their plugins but I wouldn’t know where to begin as far as condensing down Amplitube into a pedal UNLESS they just go the preset playback route.

In theory, the flexibility of a direct profile, or even a merged one, is cool. But at least with the Kemper mic’ing the speaker and creating the profile the original way has been part of most of the truly magic profiles that people talk about.

couldn’t really disagree more with this. Every Kemper and ToneX preset hinges on the mic, position and cab. What works on one guitar may be awful on another even if the amp settings may be appropriate for both.

It’s also usually the micing that people balls up on, so being able to change that easily is such a big advantage. The only downside of direct profiles/captures is the person making them needs to use a good load (ideally cab or a well designed load box). They can vary a bit in quality but I find direct models WAY more useable on the whole, definitely much less hunting through all kinds of combinations of mic+speaker+cab combinations that aren’t right.

It just feels like one area of ToneX that wasn’t a priority - even in Max they didn’t include a single direct model. The VIR section is somewhat neglected - the VIR names are abbreviated and it’s hard to tell what’s what. The user IR folder can’t be organised at all, the levels are off. The tech works but it needs a lot more attention and care applied into making it something truly great.

The price of the pedal is excellent, but given all the downsides, I’d only say it works out as good value because of the included software. I know it’s meant to be basic, but something basic should do those things really well and should in theory have the most elegant use.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Please link quote. Fantastic profiles with baked in ODs have been part of the Kemper lexicon since day one.

Can't find a quote right now, it's been a while. But it's absolutely wellknown that the Kemper can't do certain things, usually once things get sort of "unusual" or once stacked gain structures are involved. Compressors aren't exactly "profilable" either - which they should, if anything was working.
Doesn't mean that it won't work all the time, though, it's usually just not recommended.
Btw, I remember being at a friend's place 2-3 years after the Kemper came out, we thought it could perhaps be possible to profile his EL Distressor (in fact, that'd be quite cool, these things are damn expensive), but no way it'd work.

I’m assuming that is the case with the QC and ToneX files as well.

They should have way less problems as the capturing process seems to be pretty different and more "complete".

 

[yeky83]

Please link quote. Fantastic profiles with baked in ODs have been part of the Kemper lexicon since day one. I’m assuming that is the case with the QC and ToneX files as well.

It's right there in the Kemper manual...

"some distortion pedals use a special design that cannot be captured accurately, for instance the Tube Screamer™... Other effects should be bypassed during the PROFILING process because they will adversely affect the result, making it sound less natural, and different to the original amp tone. These include compressors..."

 

[MirrorProfiles]

But if you hear for instance MBritt tell it, the magic is in the Studio profiles, which is why he offers 90% of those in his commercial packs. Britt uses his favorite speaker… which one (me) may think is somehow less cork sniffy, but ultimately it’s the amps interplay with his speaker, and they do sound great. Bert M tends to make profiles that incorporate the original speakers, which also sound great. Intellectually, or from a provenance angle, that’s more pleasing to me, but ultimately, lol, whatever works.

Ha yep, there are valid reasons for liking Studio profiles - you dont have to worry about impedance load interactions, or the Kemper's shoddy IR loader as much. Its kind of baked into the sound of the profile and you're pretty well set. Again, its just personal preference. I can understand why some people may prefer the simplicity of studio profiles where they don't have to worry about factors beyond their control. The ideal for me is having that control and being able to adjust things as I see fit for any circumstance.

I'd say for at least the last 5 years of me using a Kemper its been like 98% direct profiles. Before that I was more about studio profiles, but they're a lot more hit and miss for my needs and they tend to involve more searching through profiles, and also each profile can sound more wildly different than auditioning profiles through the same IR.

Horses for courses, but I do absolutely feel the opposite to you on those. Direct+IR (or merged) to me is far superior than Studio-the cab section, which is guessing the influence of the speaker and mic.

 

[Orvillain]

The “capture“ language makes me picture giant amp heads being hunted and taken down….

Didn't expect to be fapping to lion butthole tonight, but okay, I like a challenge.

 

[texhex]

This pedal is unreal. I re-captured my amp this time paying more attention to the levels during the setup and on the AXE and all I can say is wow. 24 minutes start to finish and listening on in-ears and I'll be damned if I can tell a difference. $400!

 

[Whizzinby]

This pedal is unreal. I re-captured my amp this time paying more attention to the levels during the setup and on the AXE and all I can say is wow. 24 minutes start to finish and listening on in-ears and I'll be damned if I can tell a difference. $400!

You sharing your caps?