Tonex Pedal....It's REAL

[JiveTurkey]

I don’t get the complaints. (Well, I understand them, but think they are largely dismissible)

In a market filled with overpriced crap, this flies in at a super affordable price with a ton of software thrown in. The market went decades without a Kemper competitor, and now you have platform you can capture you’re entire rig via software and take around in a super affordable pedal format. Too big? Give me a f*****g break. First it’s hauling amps that’s too much. Then we shove the history of guitar tones into floor modelers but that’s too big so makers offer versions with less and less footswitches to accommodate those users. (Who then add midi controllers adding size back to the equation) ToneX then offers the entire history of amps and cabs into a pedal the size of a mid sized Strymon pedal, but that’s too big. Hey boss, hit “play” on an MP3 at your next show and play air guitar, because apparently any gear is an inconvenience.

UA can’t include midi or a headphone jack on a $399 pedal of one amp, and we’re bitching about this ToneX pedal? GTFO

Controls. Based on the 30 minutes of demos I’ve watched it seems pretty straightforward for what 90% of the market will use it for. (Ya know, captures of amps, not some fully fledged everything-to everyone device) Adding reverb, comp, gates is cool and those seem relatively straightforward to use via the alt command, but I’m certainly not buying it for any of those functions. I want the history of amps in a pedal format. Box checked.

/end rant

 

[JiveTurkey]

Also; for the "this pedal is 3oz too heavy!" crowd...

 

[mbenigni]

Helix/HX + ToneX Pedal has insane value combined.
If one doesn't like Helix amp models but appreciates the mature switching capability, midi implementation, command center, effects, routing, etc., put the ToneX in the loop and patch a MIDI cable between them to control the ToneX with the Helix.

Helix LT + Tonex Pedal for 1200+400 = 1600$.
And you get Helix Native, Amplitube 5, ToneX Max... for FREE.

Neural DSP must be shitting their pants right about now.

I can get behind all of this except for the NDSP shitting their pants bit. Maybe there is some small subset of QC owners who ran out and bought a QC solely because they were excited/curious about capturing, but those wouldn't have been especially budget-minded, savvy customers in the first place. With $2K on the counter, a larger percentage would have been looking at the bigger picture, where the QC provides a (mostly) full-featured multi-effects/ amp emulator with full I/O, routing, etc. Something more on par with full-fat Helix, but with (subjectively) better-sounding amp sims and a (subjectively) slightly easier UI.

It's true that NDSP is going to start losing a percentage of potential sales to sufficiently technical, budget-conscious players who will recognize that ToneX + a good multieffects unit (e.g. HX Stomp) gets the same or better done for less money. But let's not pretend that a combination like that - with the attendant MIDI programming and maintenance - is ever going to be as easy or as versatile as a single, fully-integrated product.

Personally, I think it's great that there are now a couple of different options in the way of full-fat, all-in-one units and more modular solutions like this ToneX pedal. The fact that these are being brought to market at all, and selling as well as they are, indicates there's still a very robust market. Rumors of the guitar's death have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[TubeStack]

I can get behind all of this except for the NDSP shitting their pants bit. Maybe there is some small subset of QC owners who ran out and bought a QC solely because they were excited/curious about capturing, but those wouldn't have been especially budget-minded, savvy customers in the first place. With $2K on the counter, a larger percentage would have been looking at the bigger picture, where the QC provides a (mostly) full-featured multi-effects/ amp emulator with full I/O, routing, etc. Something more on par with full-fat Helix, but with (subjectively) better sound amp sims and (subjectively) a slightly easier UI.

It's true that NDSP is going to start losing some percentage of sales to technical, budget-conscious players who will recognize that ToneX + a good multieffects unit (e.g. HX Stomp) gets the same or better done for less money. But let's not pretend that a combination like that - with the attendant MIDI programming and maintenance - is ever going to be as easy or as versatile as a single, fully-integrated product.

Personally, I think it's great that there are now a couple of different options in the way of full-fat, all-in-one units and more modular solutions like this ToneX pedal. The fact that these are being brought to market at all, and selling as well as they are, indicates there's still a very robust market. Rumors of the guitar's death have been greatly exaggerated.

Agree, also there's the “prestige product” factor the QC seems to have.

The ToneX's price point, while great, might cause it to be seen as “less than” and not sounding as good as the QC, even if it does sound as good or better. People hearing with their eyes and minds, perceived value at various price points, etc.

The player who wants to own “the best” and “ most modern” product will still likely choose the QC…

 

[mbenigni]

This does lead me to the question though - if a Helix or FM-3 could load tonex amp models, and you could do all your FX/IR/presets solely in one device, would you still buy a simple ToneX pedal?

I've been asking for this for years: e.g. a Helix .kipr file loading block, not unlike the IR file loading block. Work up the contract (inc. payment for IP value) between Kemper and Line 6, perhaps charge the end user a corresponding fee for enhanced firmware, and Bob's your uncle. No more waiting around for Kemper to build the product you want, with the UI and features and form-factor you want, etc.

That ship has sailed. Between IK's strides with ToneX, and the open source stuff available elsewhere, it's only a matter of time before loading amp profiles is as ubiquitous as loading IRs.

 

[Lysander]

It's true that NDSP is going to start losing a percentage of potential sales to sufficiently technical, budget-conscious players who will recognize that ToneX + a good multieffects unit (e.g. HX Stomp) gets the same or better done for less money. But let's not pretend that a combination like that - with the attendant MIDI programming and maintenance - is ever going to be as easy or as versatile as a single, fully-integrated product.

Thing is, it doesn't have to be. The QC is ~$1900 in the US; if ToneX is good enough at $400 (~$1000 with a HXFX+pedalboard), that can potentially make a huge splash. Other than the Kemper Stage (quite a chunky beast) there was simply no alternative to the QC for profiling in a small(er) form factor until now.

I'm looking forward to seeing sales figures over the coming months.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Neural has zero self-awareness so nothing is making them lose sleep.

 

[Deadpan]

Each brand has its place. The interesting thing about Tonex is it will bring equally good to e to a lot more players.

 

[Gearzilla]

Each brand has its place. The interesting thing about Tonex is it will bring equally good to e to a lot more players.

It’s essentially dropped the bottom out of the expensive snapshot hardware market.

It’s definitely good enough.

 

[Deadpan]

It’s essentially dropped the bottom out of the expensive snapshot hardware market.

It’s definitely good enough.

I honestly don't think so.

Kemper and NDSP have established brands and most buyers don't browse forums to make purchases.

 

[Foxmeister]

I'm aware of all that. So?

You said:

All fine. Still, why isn't there an option that the 5 controls would actually be model controls and you could then enter a mode with one of the knobs L/R of the display working as master outs? That'd be way more logical and in line with other devices, too.

So, you (a) understand that the controls on the ToneX aren't like the controls of the real amp or a model of that amp, but then (b) query why they are not?

 

[Gearzilla]

I honestly don't think so.

Kemper and NDSP have established brands and most buyers don't browse forums to make purchases.

Secrets tend not to last very long in the information age.

Currently there’s zero point in spending more than Tonex if someone is only looking to add a snapshot amp modeling option.

The Tonex Pedal is a device to integrate into other systems whether they be analog or digital.

 

[GTR37]

Also; for the "this pedal is 3oz too heavy!" crowd...

But what about the I don’t have time to take 2 seconds and hold down the encoder how can you help that guy

 

[Foxmeister]

Neural has zero self-awareness so nothing is making them lose sleep.

Indeed, and they won't lose sleep unless they start losing sales.

If they've any sense, they've already got a Duo-Cortex waiting in the wings.

 

[GTR37]

Thing is, it doesn't have to be. The QC is ~$1900 in the US; if ToneX is good enough at $400 (~$1000 with a HXFX+pedalboard), that can potentially make a huge splash. Other than the Kemper Stage (quite a chunky beast) there was simply no alternative to the QC for profiling in a small(er) form factor until now.

I'm looking forward to seeing sales figures over the coming months.

NDSP still has the effects but , I am fairly certain that the reason the Xseries are now discontinued is that IK intends to release a full integrated board shortly
Perhaps in April at NAMM

 

[Gearzilla]

 

[GTR37]

Indeed, and they won't lose sleep unless they start losing sales.

If they've any sense, they've already got a Duo-Cortex waiting in the wings.

IMO they definitely do , in fact I would believe that why they have taken so long to release updates
They have been working at the next box they can sell , although I wish them luck getting a Dual Cortex in at a price point close to IK

 

[mbenigni]

Thing is, it doesn't have to be. The QC is ~$1900 in the US; if ToneX is good enough at $400 (~$1000 with a HXFX+pedalboard), that can potentially make a huge splash. Other than the Kemper Stage (quite a chunky beast) there was simply no alternative to the QC for profiling in a small(er) form factor until now.

I'm looking forward to seeing sales figures over the coming months.

I'm not disputing any of that. I have no doubt that the ToneX will make a huge splash. Hell, it already has. I'm just saying that something like the QC is an entirely different class of product, with a target demographic of its own.

 

[James Freeman]

It’s essentially dropped the bottom out of the expensive snapshot hardware market.

Considering this and that the majority of people don't need the capturing capabilities, IK dropped a nuke on the 2k$ capturing device market.

 

[Sascha Franck]

So, you (a) understand that the controls on the ToneX aren't like the controls of the real amp or a model of that amp, but then (b) query why they are not?

No. Read again. I'm only complaining about how they are placed, which is very illogical.