yeky83
Roadie
- Messages
- 979
Dunno. This guy uses the accusation of nominalism to describe whether there should be a class D amp typology or not, not his understanding of electronics which seems nonexsistent. It's just all shit takes.
Those Seymour Duncan Powerstage amps are utter tripe
- Thread starter Orvillain
- Start date
JiveTurkey
Goatlord
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- 16,601
"Scientific" proof from thee; not for me
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- 6,543
So to sort of bring it back around to the topic of the thread.... I do think... maybe the 700watt Powerstage is better, even at the same volumes. Maybe it has the solid low-end I'm looking for, and maybe it'll have the same chest-thump. But to be honest, I don't really want to try it right now.
I look at my rig and I think... okay... I love my cab... I aint going "FRFR" or IEM's, coz I don't want to give up the trouser flap.... so that's out. I aint going 1x12 because it aint gonna give me the low-end booty punch that I live for. I would go 2x12 because even though they're not quite as powerful as a 4x12 in terms of how they sound, they can often sound very good. But ideally I stick with a 4x12.
So... I stick with a 4x12. There we go. That is the heaviest and most cumbersome element of my rig. Locked in place.
What's next?
The amp.
Okay... I could go poweramp and modeller. But I'm already carrying a balls heavy cab.... the difference between a recto and a powerstage aint gonna make my life much easier at this point. And then all the preset programming hoops I need to jump through, all the annoyance with workflow.... I may as well just stick with a caveman setup.
I look at my rig and I think... okay... I love my cab... I aint going "FRFR" or IEM's, coz I don't want to give up the trouser flap.... so that's out. I aint going 1x12 because it aint gonna give me the low-end booty punch that I live for. I would go 2x12 because even though they're not quite as powerful as a 4x12 in terms of how they sound, they can often sound very good. But ideally I stick with a 4x12.
So... I stick with a 4x12. There we go. That is the heaviest and most cumbersome element of my rig. Locked in place.
What's next?
The amp.
Okay... I could go poweramp and modeller. But I'm already carrying a balls heavy cab.... the difference between a recto and a powerstage aint gonna make my life much easier at this point. And then all the preset programming hoops I need to jump through, all the annoyance with workflow.... I may as well just stick with a caveman setup.
SKU
Roadie
- Messages
- 845
I was talking about the idea of categorising types of amps by qualities. Not describing those qualities. Pay attention!
And frankly I don't even care but I had some wine and I feel like debating some shit ...
Boudoir Guitar
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,988
In this, we are in complete agreement. It's not like you're running a NMV amp that sounds wildly different at different volumes for different gigs or anything. You're not doing some "musical review" that requires 6+ different core amp tones. Where is the benefit of amp modeling for you live? Not seeing it.
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- 6,543
honestly, it is purely effects. I'm not playing 58 variations of white man blues, so I don't need tons of amps. I pretty much just need 3 core tones amp-wise, then get the rest with a volume pedal or drive pedals.
And honestly... versus how I played in 2012, this is such a huge about face for me!!
- Messages
- 6,543
Also again I wanna mention - even the guy who OWNED and played that rig, he said the same sort of shit that I was thinking! In fact, because it was a bunch of new guys meeting up, I sorta kept my opinions to myself until he voiced it.
Then I tore into his rig good and proper, like an arsehole.
Then I tore into his rig good and proper, like an arsehole.
Boudoir Guitar
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,988
“now that you bring it up…Also again I wanna mention - even the guy who OWNED and played that rig, he said the same sort of shit that I was thinking! In fact, because it was a bunch of new guys meeting up, I sorta kept my opinions to myself until he voiced it.
Then I tore into his rig good and proper, like an arsehole.
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- 9,724
BUT…..you need to direct it in the style of Quentin Tarantino.
SKU
Roadie
- Messages
- 845
SAY "Amp where I'm at" AGAIN! SAY "Amp where I'm at" AGAIN! I DARE YOU! I DOUBLE-DARE YOU, MFKER!! SAY "Amp where I'm at" ONE MORE TIME!
deathbyguitar
Roadie
- Messages
- 158
So many things I want to say right now but it will risk me getting banned.
So maybe no to Tarantino
namathan_zirwir
Groupie
- Messages
- 95
I've been using a PS 170 for years with different modelers (live, studio etc..) at all different volumes. I love it. Sounds great - much better than other ones i've used actually. I have zero issues with it
jay mitchell
Roadie
- Messages
- 620
Or not.
Some of us can just....get the sound(s) we like. It's not always the saw, sometimes it's the carpenter. Just sayin'....
KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,378
jay mitchell
Roadie
- Messages
- 620
Dang it, there's so much garbage misinformation in threads like this that I refuse to read every post and try to correct all the misstatements. I'm gonna post a summary of relevant information.
1. Assuming the AC mains can supply enough power (from personal experience, not a given in touring concert audio) the limiting factor in continuous power an amplifier can provide is its power supply, not the bias class of the output stage.
2. The one-time icons of professional power amps - Crown DC300s and, later, PSA2s - were capable of supplying their rated power and beyond into resistive loads (much more demanding than loudspeakers) continuously, for unlimited periods of time. Those amps were used to power industrial shaker tables and the like, and Crown had no choice but to publish realizable numbers for them. That was back when Crown was a real company, not just a brand name in the Harman (later Samsung) kingdom.
3. The generation of Crown amps that superseded the PSA2 - MacroTech 1200 - used an identical output stage - same circuit, same devices - to the PSA2. To reduce the package size to 2 RU (vs 3 for the PSA2), Crown redesigned the power supply. That was it. Same output stage, same rail voltages. The MacroTech amps would current-limit and go intermittent when pressed into self-compression, a fact that my employer at the time (Showco of Dallas, TX) discovered, much to their dismay, during rehearsals for a Bob Seeger tour ca. 1986. They had, for the first time, used MacroTech amps for all four bands of a four-way concert PA, and the Macros couldn't hold up to the bass portion. The issue had nothing to do with the class of the output stage, the circuit topology, or the output devices themselves; they were all identical to their counterparts in the PSA2, which never had the problem. It was the power supply that caused the issue. It had insufficient energy storage.
4. Since that time, power supplies in power amps have seen their energy-storage capacities reduced steadily.
5. In a weight/cost/space saving effort, switchmode power supplies have since come into widespread use in audio power amps. As implemented in that application, they are always substantially underspecified, i.e., they cannot deliver their rated power on a continuous basis.
6. The manufacturer of one power amp that is widely touted for use with modelers brags about its A/B MOSFET output stage but uses a switchmode power supply, and the amp fits in a single RU. It is rated to provide substantial output power - several hundred watts - yet clips obviously around 155 watts into an 8 ohm load at a steady 1kHz.
Arguing about the relative output capacity of different power amp topologies misses the point. The absolute limit on the power an amp can produce is due to its power supply.
1. Assuming the AC mains can supply enough power (from personal experience, not a given in touring concert audio) the limiting factor in continuous power an amplifier can provide is its power supply, not the bias class of the output stage.
2. The one-time icons of professional power amps - Crown DC300s and, later, PSA2s - were capable of supplying their rated power and beyond into resistive loads (much more demanding than loudspeakers) continuously, for unlimited periods of time. Those amps were used to power industrial shaker tables and the like, and Crown had no choice but to publish realizable numbers for them. That was back when Crown was a real company, not just a brand name in the Harman (later Samsung) kingdom.
3. The generation of Crown amps that superseded the PSA2 - MacroTech 1200 - used an identical output stage - same circuit, same devices - to the PSA2. To reduce the package size to 2 RU (vs 3 for the PSA2), Crown redesigned the power supply. That was it. Same output stage, same rail voltages. The MacroTech amps would current-limit and go intermittent when pressed into self-compression, a fact that my employer at the time (Showco of Dallas, TX) discovered, much to their dismay, during rehearsals for a Bob Seeger tour ca. 1986. They had, for the first time, used MacroTech amps for all four bands of a four-way concert PA, and the Macros couldn't hold up to the bass portion. The issue had nothing to do with the class of the output stage, the circuit topology, or the output devices themselves; they were all identical to their counterparts in the PSA2, which never had the problem. It was the power supply that caused the issue. It had insufficient energy storage.
4. Since that time, power supplies in power amps have seen their energy-storage capacities reduced steadily.
5. In a weight/cost/space saving effort, switchmode power supplies have since come into widespread use in audio power amps. As implemented in that application, they are always substantially underspecified, i.e., they cannot deliver their rated power on a continuous basis.
6. The manufacturer of one power amp that is widely touted for use with modelers brags about its A/B MOSFET output stage but uses a switchmode power supply, and the amp fits in a single RU. It is rated to provide substantial output power - several hundred watts - yet clips obviously around 155 watts into an 8 ohm load at a steady 1kHz.
Arguing about the relative output capacity of different power amp topologies misses the point. The absolute limit on the power an amp can produce is due to its power supply.
Last edited:
OrganicZed
Roadie
- Messages
- 608
That sounds a lot like the Matrix GTFX series of amps.
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