The main reason modellers don’t work for me live (not a rant)

[Digital Igloo]

In the context of this guys post, that’s kinda like saying “the wind in your hair isn’t the fault of the convertible, it’s your choice to drive it with the top down”. As he says, sure he could use a power amp and cab…but at that point, why not just use the amp he usually gigs with?

Here's one of perhaps many reasons: Because that gives you one preamp sound with no easy way to instantly recall different sounds for different songs (or different sections of songs). That's kinda like asking "Why use a convertible with the top down when you can just walk?"

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

No, Eric was just pointing out that modeling isn’t where most people get hung up, it’s making the adjustment to hearing IRs through a full range system that throws off people who are used to traditional rigs. A tube amp running into a load box and then through IRs and a full range system will yield the same results as running a modeler through the same IRs into that same system.

context of the post:

“I got a convertible to drive with the top down. And then I remembered I hate the feeling of wind in my hair”

(dude went back to modeling specifically for silent stage; remembered he struggles playing that way; noted he could fix it by hauling a long an amp/cab; noted that put him into “why not just use my amp category?”)

So yes, the guys problem was monitor, not modeler. He admitted it. But fixing that negates his entire purpose for bothering with a modeler.

 

[Frodebro]

context of the post:

“I got a convertible to drive with the top down. And then I remembered I hate the feeling of wind in my hair”

(dude went back to modeling specifically for silent stage; remembered he struggles playing that way; noted he could fix it by hauling a long an amp/cab; noted that put him into “why not just use my amp category?”)

So yes, the guys problem was monitor, not modeler. He admitted it. But fixing that negates his entire purpose for bothering with a modeler.

Fixing it would also not work for a silent stage scenario, either.

Oh, the humanity…

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Fixing it would also not work for a silent stage scenario, either.

Oh, the humanity…

Correct!!!!

 

[fiftyshadesofslay]

Yes I’m well versed in knowing a direct signal replicates a mic’d amp. That’s not the issue. It’s the fact that you don’t get any feedback from a speaker on stage when running purely direct.

 

[fiftyshadesofslay]

And I’m not really looking for a solution, as that just involves bringing an amp of some description. It was more an observation on why it didn’t work for me.

 

[mikah912]

And I’m not really looking for a solution, as that just involves bringing an amp of some description. It was more an observation on why it didn’t work for me.

But was it "modellers" not working for you or was it a silent stage not working for you?

Put another way, if modellers never existed and you had to use a tube amp into a load box heard only via IEMs, would any part of this thread be different?

I think it's just your thread title throwing people.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

But was it "modellers" not working for you or was it a silent stage not working for you?

Put another way, if modellers never existed and you had to use a tube amp into a load box heard only via IEMs, would any part of this thread be different?

I think it's just your thread title throwing people.

I think it’s the people not reading his post that is throwing people.

 

[mikah912]

I think it’s the people not reading his post that is throwing people.

Well, OP starts off by saying he "doesn't like using modellers anyway", then goes immediately into the silent stage use case being a problem. So he's not exactly decoupling them.

Maybe he felt the need to namecheck "modellers" to make it fit in this subforum? It's all good. No beating physics here when trying to make a high-volume amp/feedback scenario manifest with IEMs only on a silent stage. There are just a lot of modern venues where there's no other way.

 

[Guitarwiz007]

I agree with the OP but that said, practice the way you play. I gigged with very loud amps and cabs for 30 years. A decade ago, circumstances changed and I switched to modeling. I wasn't happy about it but I learned it and played with it and am now getting fantastic sounds out of my Kemper. Do I miss that amp/cab interaction? Sure I do. But that noise isn't paying the bills anymore. Just keep plugging away.

IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE THE SAME. I think once you grasp the finality of that (like I was forced to), I dug in and made sure I'm giving a guitar playing product that will work in any situation and tried to find the brighter side of noiseless stage life. Extremely quick setup, consistently great sound, plus no more fighting with FOH engineers about my stage volume. There are some things where I miss that feedback but I have two guitars with Sustainers in them so I use those for songs that need that kind of thing. There are pedals I think that could accomplish the same thing to add to your board.

It's sort of a blessing in disguise as I was losing my hearing anyway and now I just dial my IEM's in so they sound good and can keep the volume reasonable.

Damn right I miss the old days. Would I go back? Ya know, probably not. Especially here in my area in the states, a lot of venues won't book you if you use amps. But acoustic drums are ok. Go figure. Now profilers/modelers are my life and when dialed in correctly, they are really hard to beat. Anyway, hope you can see yourself through this dilemma that I think every professional goes through or will go through.

 

[deadpool_25]

But acoustic drums are ok. Go figure.

This is a good point. Why do some places/people mandate a silent stage and still allow acoustic drums. Those are the polar opposite of silent.

 

[ian_dissonance]

This is a good point. Why do some places/people mandate a silent stage and still allow acoustic drums. Those are the polar opposite of silent.

I can run a whole show at the maximum level of the drummer if everyone else is ampless. There are like 4 guitar players in all of existence than can manage their own stage volume if given the opportunity. It’s better to just not give them the opportunity.

 

[Chocol8]

This is a good point. Why do some places/people mandate a silent stage and still allow acoustic drums. Those are the polar opposite of silent.

Did you not see the edrum thread? Hint, you don't want to!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Well, OP starts off by saying he "doesn't like using modellers anyway", then goes immediately into the silent stage use case being a problem. So he's not exactly decoupling them.

Maybe he felt the need to namecheck "modellers" to make it fit in this subforum? It's all good. No beating physics here when trying to make a high-volume amp/feedback scenario manifest with IEMs only on a silent stage. There are just a lot of modern venues where there's no other way.

Of course he’s not decoupling them - he was happy using amps. He turned to modeler FOR SILENT STAGE. But if you wanted to actually quote his post, he acknowledges just a few short sentences later that it’s no really even the modeler he dislikes.

I love modelers. If I needed to play a gig and be loud and posted about preferring to use my modeler because I always get frustrated with changing headroom of an amp between rehearsal space and gig space, someone could post “but you could just use a Powerstation or other solution to load/remap and not have that problem at all! And I could reply to that with “yeah, that seems dumb” and then they could reply that my issue isn’t with amps per se, it’s that I’m not using them right. And I would say “of course, I acknowledged that in my first damn post. And second. And third. But it’s not like I’m WANTING to use an amp - I just need to be loud and am reminded that I hate the headaches involved with being loud. As I’ve said in each of my half dozen posts in this thread”.

 

[sashimi]

Obligatory “It’s a great time to be a guitar player”

 

[sleewell]

The biggest thing w any of them is how you make them loud. They all can sound good these days its just a matter of dialing them in for what you are doing and being able to do that quickly at show while people are looking at you lol. It's easy to make them sound good at home but it's not just as simple as turning up a master volume bc things start to change at band levels. Plus you start to deal with power amps coloring the tone or cabs and speakers plus when you get loud you get more unwanted squeeling and noise so understanding gates and EQs are important.


Just like with anything you have to rehearse at the volumes you play at and then don't make changes at low volumes at home right before a show. I like having multiple presets that are kinda similar but home versions and then live versions.

 

[ian_dissonance]

The biggest thing w any of them is how you make them loud. They all can sound good these days its just a matter of dialing them in for what you are doing and being able to do that quickly at show while people are looking at you lol. It's easy to make them sound good at home but it's not just as simple as turning up a master volume bc things start to change at band levels. Plus you start to deal with power amps coloring the tone or cabs and speakers plus when you get loud you get more unwanted squeeling and noise so understanding gates and EQs are important.


Just like with anything you have to rehearse at the volumes you play at and then don't make changes at low volumes at home right before a show. I like having multiple presets that are kinda similar but home versions and then live versions.

The “why are my Axe-FX tones that I used to record the album at my house feeding back like crazy through this Orange 4x12 and QSC power amp I just picked up today? This must be your fault sound monkey!” shows are fun.