Amp modeller for doom-metal?

[mikbank]

Hi!

So i am getting back into playing music for the first time in a long time, and oh buy a lot has changed on the modelling side of things!

I am getting a bit into Doom/Sludge/Drone metal this time around, Back in the day I used to push an ancient cranked Laney Klipp with a buttload of fuzz pedals, letting the fuzzes distort the amp even furter.

At home I am using a Boss GX10 (which I adore for the way I can play araound with effect sequence) and i've only found 1 digital amp on there, that seem to be able to be overdriven by high output fuzzes. I havent tried running DI from the board yet, so I havent heard it on a PA yet, but I'm not expecting anything special.

I am wondering if modellers can do it yet, does anybody else have experiences playing Doom on modellers?

At this point I'm far too lazy to lug a 22+ kilo head and a cab around, even though Doom/Sludge sort of has a big valve amp ethos.

 

[sleewell]

no.


pls dont.


i love modelers but they suck for doom/sludge/fuzz. plus even if they were decent the entire point of the genre is lots of speakers on stage moving a lot of air.

 

[JiveTurkey]

This pedal caught my eyes and ears a ways back. Not a modeler but also not a 50lb head either. Combined with a poweramp and cab; maybe a reasonable option?

 

[mikbank]

no.


pls dont.


i love modelers but they suck for doom/sludge/fuzz. plus even if they were decent the entire point of the genre is lots of speakers on stage moving a lot of air.

Haha I really get where you're coming from, I've played cranked full-stacks setups where we had extra amps just to be loud loud loud.
It was awesome, but also: Having done my part of stagemanager shifts, i really, really dont want to lug around another mountain sized amp rig even if it's my own.
plus: in my mind a PA should be able to move a lot more air than a guitar amp could ever do?

I am just getting in to modelling, so i have alot to learn, is it just that modellers are not capable as of yet, or is there a basic principle that won''t allow them to be overdriven "naturally"?

 

[mikbank]

This pedal caught my eyes and ears a ways back. Not a modeler but also not a 50lb head either. Combined with a poweramp and cab; maybe a reasonable option?

Oh interesting! I'll check that out!

 

[dronerstone]

This pedal caught my eyes and ears a ways back. Not a modeler but also not a 50lb head either. Combined with a poweramp and cab; maybe a reasonable option?

I use their Exegol that exact way. It's unbelievable how good it sounds - absolutely nails doom sounds... to a (Model) T.

I'll see myself out.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Doom/stoner is SO LINKED to a vibe and visceral feeling it's just hard to separate it from that experience and move it to the digital realm. I don't think any of the key players have anything super special stoner rock equivalent that compares to a Marshall model on this or a Boogie model on that for other genres/subgenres?

 

[dronerstone]

Doom/stoner is SO LINKED to a vibe and visceral feeling it's just hard to separate it from that experience and move it to the digital realm. I don't think any of the key players have anything super special stoner rock equivalent that compares to a Marshall model on this or a Boogie model on that for other genres/subgenres?

Actually, the "Moo))n T" in the Helix is pretty decent.

 

[mikbank]

I use their Exegol that exact way. It's unbelievable how good it sounds - absolutely nails doom sounds... to a (Model) T.

I'll see myself out.

Just saw a demo of the Exegol, it sounds amazing! Are you running the pedal to an amp?

 

[mikbank]

Doom/stoner is SO LINKED to a vibe and visceral feeling it's just hard to separate it from that experience and move it to the digital realm. I don't think any of the key players have anything super special stoner rock equivalent that compares to a Marshall model on this or a Boogie model on that for other genres/subgenres?

Yea it makes sense, few things compare to being able to lean in to a wall of valve-driven loudness and the amp-wall does look cool as f... perhaps someday in the future we’ll see Stoner bands with cardboard cut-outs of amps behind them

 

[Lysander]

Sunn Model Ts in Helix are

 

[dronerstone]

Just saw a demo of the Exegol, it sounds amazing! Are you running the pedal to an amp?

Into power amp/fx return, can confirm it works nicely with the following:

- LAB Series L2/L5/L11
- Fender 1994 Twin Amp
- Boss Katana (much better than expected!)

Anyhow, the key is feeding it 18V and using the dedicated line-level output (not the instrument one) for massive headroom and response like the real V1 Model T.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

I love doomy amps, it's one of my main things.
I've made NAM models (profiles) of my fuzz pedals and my Laney head and I use the Dimehead NAM player which has two outputs which go to:

a) a power amp and Laney cab, and
b) into a PA with an IR on that output.

That way I have even more doomage than just one amp>cab.

For practical non-back breaking use cases, I still recommend the Dimehead NAM player because you get highly accurate profiles of amps and pedals, and you can put it out to an amp and cab, or an FRFR/PA, or both at the same time (with and without an IR).

Alternatively I'd go with a Line 6 Helix of some kind, they have the amps and pedals you'd love there too. (Life Pedal / Sunn amps etc).

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

This pedal caught my eyes and ears a ways back. Not a modeler but also not a 50lb head either. Combined with a poweramp and cab; maybe a reasonable option?

similarly, this has caught my eye recently and I'm thinking I might get one eventually:

Omega Lead - Guitar pedal based on Sunn Beta Lead

We took a Sunn Beta Lead and packed it into a pedal. Synonymous with stoner rock and doom metal, the Sunn Beta Lead is one of the most versatile amplifiers ever designed. The unique CMOS distortion circuit generates harmonically rich distortion, which is then shaped by an active EQ circuit with...

ghostnoteaudio.uk

 

[GuitarBilly74]

I wouldn't use a modeler for doom. Modeling is the square opposite of what doom is all about. And the digital sound is just not right for it. It doesn't sit in the mix with the proper heaviness and density the style requires. It just doesn't.

If you don't want to carry a stack to gigs get a small head and a 2x12.

My suggestion would be the EHX Mig 60, which is very small and powerful and it's an excellent pedal platform. If you want to go even smaller look into the Bluguitar Amp1.

Add a 2x12 and you have a killer rig you can easily carry in one trip. Bluguitar and DV Mark have 2x12s that are very lightweight.

If you really want to go the DI route I'd get a Friedman IR-D/X/J pedal or even a SansAmp Fly Rig.
At any rate, go analog.

 

[Orvillain]

Back in the day I used to push an ancient cranked Laney Klipp with a buttload of fuzz pedals, letting the fuzzes distort the amp even furter.

Go back to that. Your penish will thank you, in a Sean Connery accent.

 

[synthpenguin]

I don’t agree that you need analog necessarily, but you do need volume to truly pull off the sound in the room.

The big question imo will be if you want to use real fuzz pedals. If you don’t, I think you can go all digital for the sound itself (more on playback for a second).

If you want to stack a lot of real fuzz pedals and boosts, this is where digital fails as it can be very difficult to gain stage this while avoiding clipping the A/D converter, especially on certain units.

You can mitigate this by placing some sort of always-on pedal at the end of your pedal chain before the modeler / capture player to be clipped by / “absorb” louder inputs and “protect” your digital device’s input from being clipped. This would probably be some sort of preamp type pedal designed to clip “like an amp”, and set to be pretty clean when not being driven at its input, but there are other options too. Certain types of compressors might even work too.

BUT at that point you might just want to consider getting most of your amp sound from a preamp pedal. I’d look at actual preamp pedals designed to be sent into power amps or cabsims. For solid state, something like the Kuro that was linked to, or the excellent EAE modelFET, or the Science Mother Preamp (also designed by EAE). For tube, you want a high voltage tube preamp like the Kingsley, Arthur Sound, or Tubesteader preamps, or the Friedman IR pedals or Tone King Imperial Preamp.

As far as playback ~
In all of these cases, for headphone and low volume practice, cabsims / IRs are fine. It won’t be the full experience, but won’t be any different from like when you’re listening to the records. Not everyone gets to play loud all the time, and I don’t think you need to limit yourself to that these days. Anyway, if you go with the analog preamp route, an IR player (Two Notes Cab M, etc) or your GX-10 can provide that, though ideally you want a power amp sim of some sort. The Friedman and Tone King options have this stuff built-in and are designed as all-in-one units.

For high volume and live, you really do want a power amp into a cab. Moving air like that is part of the sound, and it might be possible to get there in other ways, but it will all be more expensive and complicated than necessary for little to no gain. If you go solid state for the power amp, you want lots of wattage, more than you’d think, for the headroom for transients and low end. Bass amps with FX returns can be great for this. The higher wattage Quilter stuff too.

Tube power amps in general will be easier for various reasons and you don’t need as much wattage, though with the typical up and downsides of tube amps. Maybe controversial to say, but a cheap, used Hot Rod Deluxe (or two) can be good for this when using it with an external preamp run into the power amp input. Old Peavey heads etc too. Of course, at this point it’s really diminishing returns and brings you back to: just use a tube amp.