Randall Smith Gone From Mesa Boogie/Gibson?

[Chocol8]

How could he not know what kind of asshats Gibson and their PE owners were? It’s not like they did anything surprising or out of character.

 

[Mikael Dez]

How could he not know what kind of asshats Gibson and their PE owners were? It’s not like they did anything surprising or out of character.

Especially based on Mesa’s history, Fender would have been cool imo.

 

[EOengineer]

Especially based on Mesa’s history, Fender would have been cool imo.

Based on the history, I agree.

Then I look at the $1400 single model modeling amp they’re pushing (tone master deluxe) and no thank you.

 

[laxu]

Based on the history, I agree.

Then I look at the $1400 single model modeling amp they’re pushing (tone master deluxe) and no thank you.

Try the all-tube regular old Deluxe Reverb that costs more than a small builder boutique version in Europe.

That said, Gibson is known for gutting brands so I hope Randall at least got a good chunk of retirement money out of it.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Based on the history, I agree.

Then I look at the $1400 single model modeling amp they’re pushing (tone master deluxe) and no thank you.

I paid about $2000 combined for a LE Princeton and LE Deluxe both new around 2017-2018. So yes, prices have gotten crazy. But I also bought a mint used TM Super this year for $600. They are asking something like $1649 new. So it’s kind of all over the map.

When I look at the gear I’ve acquired over the years and how much it would cost to replace them now… it stops me from a LOT of purchases and from selling unless I am completely sure. The same goes from some of my best guitars. I paid about $2700 total for both of these new. Now it about the same for one. If they still make them. Sure wish I had been smart enough to hold on to my Mesa amps.

 

[EOengineer]

I paid about $2000 combined for a LE Princeton and LE Deluxe both new around 2017-2018. So yes, prices have gotten crazy. But I also bought a mint used TM Super this year for $600. They are asking something like $1649 new. So it’s kind of all over the map.

When I look at the gear I’ve acquired over the years and how much it would cost to replace them now… it stops me from a LOT of purchases and from selling unless I am completely sure. The same goes from some of my best guitars. I paid about $2700 total for both of these new. Now it about the same for one. If they still make them. Sure wish I had been smart enough to hold on to my Mesa amps.

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Yeah it’s been wild to watch what has happened with even a lot of the 90s gear we just dismissed wholesale because it wasn’t vintage. Well…guess what…it became vintage. It definitely makes you think twice before selling.

 

[laxu]

Yeah it’s been wild to watch what has happened with even a lot of the 90s gear we just dismissed wholesale because it wasn’t vintage. Well…guess what…it became vintage. It definitely makes you think twice before selling.

Which is why the vintage guitar market is a huge pile of bullshit.

• The right brand on the headstock = desirable, I'll give you $5000 for it.
• The wrong brand on the headstock = some old guitar, I'll give you $100 for it.

Let's not forget you couldn't give away 1970s Fenders and Gibsons in the 1990s because people considered those to be "CBS/Norlin crap". It was "Buy a 1990s model or buy a real vintage one from the 1950s/1960s". Even though the reality is somewhere in between, 30-35 years later somehow those unwanted guitars have become desirable again.

It'll be interesting to see when the boomer generation dies what will happen to the vintage guitar market.

But for anyone lamenting the cost of the gear back in the day, use an inflation calculator and you will likely feel better about it.

 

[Chocol8]

Those 70’s guitars from both Fender and Gibson WERE crap relative to both the 50’s-60’s versions, for Fender the late 80’s and newer, and for both the MIJ and other quality imports.

 

[Frodebro]

Those 70’s guitars from both Fender and Gibson WERE crap relative to both the 50’s-60’s versions, for Fender the late 80’s and newer, and for both the MIJ and other quality imports.

Fender and Gibson were both way down in quality control until that new company (PRS) raised the bar in 1985. They were forced to get their shit together if they wanted to hang on to any piece of the market.

 

[Chocol8]

There were very few people who cared about PRS in 1985. Fender picked up their quality with the management buyout in 1985 and PRS had nothing to do with that.

Meanwhile Henry purchased Gibson from a state of near bankruptcy in January 1886. Their troubles were from imports and lack of market interest in their styles, not PRS either.

 

[metropolis_4]

Fender and Gibson were both way down in quality control until that new company (PRS) raised the bar in 1985. They were forced to get their shit together if they wanted to hang on to any piece of the market.

I don’t think PRS had anything to do with it. CBS was running Fender into the ground with corporate BS in the ‘70s, and then in the mid-80’s when Bill Shultz and Co. bought it and founded FMIC they really turned it around. For those first few years almost all Fenders came from FujiGen and quality was great

 

[Frodebro]

I don’t think PRS had anything to do with it. CBS was running Fender into the ground with corporate BS in the ‘70s, and then in the mid-80’s when Bill Shultz and Co. bought it and founded FMIC they really turned it around. For those first few years almost all Fenders came from FujiGen and quality was great

Not initially, no, but it didn’t take long for people to start talking about the consistency and fit & finish on PRS guitars. They built their reputation on that, and that was absolutely an influence on the entire market. Fender & Gibson are still hit & miss on their QC to this day, though. PRS is not.

 

[greatmutah]

Honestly, Fender’s biggest competition were Kramer and Jackson/Charvel. Even Schecter too. They were doing bolt ons better then Fender was and with features and setups more conducive to the market at the time. And as someone else mentioned, FujiGen were essentially making clones with better quality and consistency than anything CBS/Fender was doing. Not to say that all CBS Strats were bad. But Japan was definitely showing Fender up.

 

[metropolis_4]

Not initially, no, but it didn’t take long for people to start talking about the consistency and fit & finish on PRS guitars. They built their reputation on that, and that was absolutely an influence on the entire market. Fender & Gibson are still hit & miss on their QC to this day, though. PRS is not.

I don’t know how much impact PRS really had.

From what I’ve read, even today, at a time when PRS is significantly bigger than it was then, PRS is in the “other” category for market share. PRS, Ovation, Charvel, ESP, Jackson, Dean, and Washburn combined account for ~9% of market share, while Fender and Gibson both hold ~30% each.

Thats nothing against PRS or their guitars! They’re just a significantly smaller company.

Honestly, Fender’s biggest competition were Kramer and Jackson/Charvel. Even Schecter too. They were doing bolt ons better then Fender was and with features and setups more conducive to the market at the time. And as someone else mentioned, FujiGen were essentially making clones with better quality and consistency than anything CBS/Fender was doing. Not to say that all CBS Strats were bad. But Japan was definitely showing Fender up.

I think you’re right, which is why Fender began working with FujiGen and other Japanese factories in 1982 to produce Fender instruments. And why FMIC chose FujiGen to manufacture Fender instruments for them while they worked on building the new US facilities in the mid-80’s after the sale.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Whatever market share ESP has, they got me 100% minus one Les Paul. They definitely aren’t just for metal heads and I stay away from their wide spread of EMG equipped models. Although I do have one with Fluence pickups that is pretty sweet and certainly versatile. Each hum-bucker has standard PAF, Hot Rod PAF and single coil via push-pull pots.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I don’t know how much impact PRS really had.

From what I’ve read, even today, at a time when PRS is significantly bigger than it was then, PRS is in the “other” category for market share. PRS, Ovation, Charvel, ESP, Jackson, Dean, and Washburn combined account for ~9% of market share, while Fender and Gibson both hold ~30% each.

Thats nothing against PRS or their guitars! They’re just a significantly smaller company.



I think you’re right, which is why Fender began working with FujiGen and other Japanese factories in 1982 to produce Fender instruments. And why FMIC chose FujiGen to manufacture Fender instruments for them while they worked on building the new US facilities in the mid-80’s after the sale.

And Charvel/Jackson are owned by Fender so add that to their pool of sales at the end of the day.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Whatever market share ESP has, they got me 100% minus one Les Paul. They definitely aren’t just for metal heads and I stay away from their wide spread of EMG equipped models. Although I do have one with Fluence pickups that is pretty sweet and certainly versatile. Each hum-bucker has standard PAF, Hot Rod PAF and single coil via push-pull pots.

Check check

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

[…] I stay away from their wide spread of EMG equipped models. […]

Is there a reason why you don't want to sound awesome?

 

[KingsXJJ]

Is there a reason why you don't want to sound awesome?

I tried them so I could sound awesome and it didn’t sound awesome.

 

[SonVolt]

I just don't like the tactile feel of ESP guitars. I don't know if it's the poly or what, but they feel like plastic toys. I've owned several from E-II, to LTD Elite to EC-1000. They were/are all good playing instruments however.