Question for bands using modeling

[ian_dissonance]

Because it looks even worse than it sounds?
It all starts looking a bit karaoke by the time people realise nobody is playing the keyboard with the use of backing tracks and then the drums go.

I’ve played shows with tracked bass, tracked drums, keys, etc. The only people who give a crap are a handful of musicians, and we all know playing to the musicians in the crowd is not productive.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Because it looks even worse than it sounds?
It all starts looking a bit karaoke by the time people realise nobody is playing the keyboard with the use of backing tracks and then the drums go.

You don’t like modelers, you don’t like eDrums. I’m starting to think we should get off your lawn.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I agree with all that. For the record, my band is on amps and a kit for live shows.

My question is more along the lines of IF you're going digital, why not go all digital? It seems weird to me to replace some instruments but not the biggest/loudest one?

Even when I, as a non drummer, sit down behind an ekit,,,I do the observation that the triggering is suboptimale. May work for “boom tjak”…but as soon as you get into more subtile terittories…It sucks bigtime to play. Try to play Rosanna on an ekit..not gonna work. As a guitarplayer I wouldn’t want to play with an ekit…as a drummer multiply that by 100

Sonically the acoustic drums still there, and the rest on iem or wedges is suboptimale also…especially when the PA system is only L/R…when you stand in the middle / front row, drums is totally out of balance, and seems to come from another planet…cause that’s acoustic, and the rest processed and foh ready sound.

 

[EOengineer]

You don’t like modelers, you don’t like eDrums. I’m starting to think we should get off your lawn.

 

[Hapless]

Our drummer has been using a Roland e-kit for years. Works so much better for mixing and volume wars.

 

[deathbyguitar]

Try to play Rosanna on an ekit..not gonna work.

I can't be the only one that thinks that song sounds like an early-90's car lot jingle

 

[paisleywookiee]

Even when I, as a non drummer, sit down behind an ekit,,,I do the observation that the triggering is suboptimale. May work for “boom tjak”…but as soon as you get into more subtile terittories…It sucks bigtime to play. Try to play Rosanna on an ekit..not gonna work. As a guitarplayer I wouldn’t want to play with an ekit…as a drummer multiply that by 100

Sonically the acoustic drums still there, and the rest on iem or wedges is suboptimale also…especially when the PA system is only L/R…when you stand in the middle / front row, drums is totally out of balance, and seems to come from another planet…cause that’s acoustic, and the rest processed and foh ready sound.

1. You made me listen to Rosanna. Ew.
2. Which version? Toto or Weezer? I assumed the former
3. Which part can’t be played on an eKit? This isn’t exactly Dream Theater we’re talking about.

 

[BahamaDada]

Bc drummers are no inch better than us guitarists.

Actual quote: "E-Drums are gay!". Okay. First... okay. Second: They can be genderfluid, IDGAF. They bring down our rehearsal and stage volume so much down it would be criminal. I YEARN for a silent stage. We are all modellers and IEM and just the drums make a hell lot of noise.

Playing tiny stages with a 5piece most of the time I have to stand right behind the singer. Guess what's bleeding in my vox mic for 90 minutes? Your fking cymbals and crashes.

 

[newholland]

it just never seems like sound guys never care about drums being loud. its always turn that guitar amp down hahahaha. i think they can usually mix around loud drums but a loud directional guitar amp is harder

and MORE stupidly, cant understand that guitar amps being LOUD has more to do with Animal over there behind the kit, and duh... the amp is what i need to hear over THAT GUY. dont touch my amp- go bitchslap that guy.

 

[paisleywookiee]

and MORE stupidly, cant understand that guitar amps being LOUD has more to do with Animal over there behind the kit, and duh... the amp is what i need to hear over THAT GUY. dont touch my amp- go bitchslap that guy.

Yup. A 25w head on a 2x12 is enough. Until you add the lovechild of Animal and John Bonham, then you need at least a 50w.

 

[newholland]

i mean, at the end of the day, none of this is musical accomodation. this whole conversation is predicated on making music into sonic wallpaper for venue owners who could give a rats ass what we have to shell out. is what it is, if thats your living, you do it. but i dont need to LIKE it, nor make undue accomodations for people that want me not to be louder than the bears game at the bar. just sayin. theyre gonna keep moving the needle until we're ai generated music with a volume knob. and theyll still undercut you anyhow

 

[la szum]

Because drummers are whiny bitches who can’t possibly fathom playing on something that isn’t a million db at all times.

I am a Drummer, too, and that checks out.

 

[la szum]

I gigged an Hybrid E-Kit in a Modern Rock Cover Band. Roland Bass and Toms, with
an Acoustic Snare (E-kit snares are not as dynamic and kind of blow) along with
Acoustic Hit-Hats and Cymbals.

Best of both worlds. Got a lot of compliments, too---especially on the Kick Drum
sound without the wonky splish-splash of E-Cymbals.

 

[paisleywookiee]

i mean, at the end of the day, none of this is musical accomodation. this whole conversation is predicated on making music into sonic wallpaper for venue owners who could give a rats ass what we have to shell out. is what it is, if thats your living, you do it. but i dont need to LIKE it, nor make undue accomodations for people that want me not to be louder than the bears game at the bar. just sayin. theyre gonna keep moving the needle until we're ai generated music with a volume knob. and theyll still undercut you anyhow

As a Chicagoan, I say screw Bears fans.

 

[la szum]

i mean, at the end of the day, none of this is musical accomodation. this whole conversation is predicated on making music into sonic wallpaper for venue owners who could give a rats ass what we have to shell out. is what it is, if thats your living, you do it. but i dont need to LIKE it, nor make undue accomodations for people that want me not to be louder than the bears game at the bar. just sayin. theyre gonna keep moving the needle until we're ai generated music with a volume knob. and theyll still undercut you anyhow

Thanks. Going to go kill myself now.


You are not wrong.

 

[newholland]

As a Chicagoan, I say screw Bears fans.

i actually used that having been yelled at for soundchecking during a bears game at the empty bottle

 

[newholland]

Thanks. Going to go kill myself now.


You are not wrong.

sorry mang im keepin my amps and lll play nice as i can, but at some point, you either accept physics, or you go jukebox as a 'club' owner. sorry, not sorry. you dont do it for free, and i dont either. in theory.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

i mean, at the end of the day, none of this is musical accomodation. this whole conversation is predicated on making music into sonic wallpaper for venue owners who could give a rats ass what we have to shell out. is what it is, if thats your living, you do it. but i dont need to LIKE it, nor make undue accomodations for people that want me not to be louder than the bears game at the bar. just sayin. theyre gonna keep moving the needle until we're ai generated music with a volume knob. and theyll still undercut you anyhow

sorry mang im keepin my amps and lll play nice as i can, but at some point, you either accept physics, or you go jukebox as a 'club' owner. sorry, not sorry. you dont do it for free, and i dont either. in theory.

I hear you. My band gear is a Marshall 100w 1/2 stack, a 400w bass rig with a 4x10 and an oversized Ludwig kit. I am not changing that anytime soon. Nor I am asking you or anyone to do that, that's not the point I was getting at. I am not arguing analog vs digital as a whole.

My question was why IF you choose to put part of the band on digital/DI, why not the drums?

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I can't be the only one that thinks that song sounds like an early-90's car lot jingle

Well…that’s probably cause those same players tracked 50% of music that hit the charts back then

i mean, at the end of the day, none of this is musical accomodation. this whole conversation is predicated on making music into sonic wallpaper for venue owners who could give a rats ass what we have to shell out. is what it is, if thats your living, you do it. but i dont need to LIKE it, nor make undue accomodations for people that want me not to be louder than the bears game at the bar. just sayin. theyre gonna keep moving the needle until we're ai generated music with a volume knob. and theyll still undercut you anyhow

It’s like mitigating 100% of the risk of a single person in the audience of a comedian being offended a wee bit. Your left with a series of dadjokes no one buys tickets for.

Pleasing both grandma sitting in front of the speaker with a hearingaid going nuts, as well as a crowd that is there for the music…not gonna happen. Trying stops complaints, but also people coming for the music.
Not that there is an easy solution…these days it’s hard to get people to come of the couch for live music..and venues better off advertising great cupcakes instead of love music.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

First of all, a barely decent electronic drum kit is extremely more expensive than an acoustic drum kit. And I think this is a major point for any band and drummer. Not to mention the additional cost of a control unit with the faders and the separate outputs for each element (in my opinion it'd be essential for mixing and playing live). Then you need also a good powered monitor for it.
So you would end up with a cost that is 5 to 10 times higher than a acoustic drums...
Then we could discuss about ghost notes, drum technique, and feeling. But these problems come second.

I don't agree with the price thing. When I put my studio e-kit together it cost me about $2k all in. Is that cheap? No. It's less than my Les Paul though. Not to mention the rest of my rig. And DEFINITELY less than my drummer's Ludwig Classic Maple kit + rack + cymbals etc.

If you're talking about a $500 acoustic drums, then ok. But that's not necessarily electronic vs acoustic. Just like a Squier is not the benchmark for guitar prices.