Question for bands using modeling

Stratzrus said:
What kind of tweaking do you do?
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The majority of our eDrum tweaking involves what Kit is used on different songs, and what levels the different drums have in the kit. In a particular song, the snare may be more out front than it is in another song for example. The other thing we pay pretty close attention to is the tone of the kick drum as we feel this is one of the most important parts of the kit.
 
OneEng said:
Yea, I can remember having this exact conversation with the other guitar player in a band I was in before we went with a silent stage! I also remember said other guitar player running off on a different part of the song when the lead singer accidentally missed the bridge. He couldn't hear what was going on and JUST KEPT PLAYING something different than the rest of the band!

Yea, nothing like a recording to make you feel like crap about how you play and/or sing :). Man, those raw tracks are brutal!

The sound out front with an eDrum band is always tighter IME. Yes, I agree that it takes some tweaking to get it there, but once there, it is reproducible in every venue.
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If I am able to run my signal into the PA I prefer to play with my amp in front of me, although it does cause issues since I also sing a lot and need to have a monitor for my vocals. I have attempted to use IEMs many times over the years so I can hear my vocals and guitar but it doesn't work very well when no one else In the band uses them.

I'm not against using IEMs in general, I do keep trying. Last spring I was briefly in a band that attempted to do the silent stage thing (drummer didn't have e-drums so it didn't work out very well as they tended to drown out the IEMs) and I quit after 2 rehearsals primarily because they spent more time getting their system to work than actually playing. It was very frustrating, especially when the users are not that knowledgeable about running theirsystem..
 
OneEng said:
Ironically, Singers and bass players appear to be the most open to a silent stage and IEM's (ie, the 2 least offensive sources of high stage volume in the first place) ..... while lead guitar players most frequently refuse because they can't hear "their sound". I have had pretty good luck with drummers and IEM's (or headphones) vs wedges simply because drummers are basically used to not being able to hear ANYTHING .... so when they get an IEM mix where they can FINALLY hear the rest of the band, they frequently like it.
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If I can get drummers into in ears, and theyre still bashing cymbals, I'll put the cymbal mics that dont go to front of house, but only broadcast and recording outs into their in ears and LOUD, sometimes it helps, but often they really can't hear the cymbals anyway. And sadly here in Hawaii, because of the whole Jawaiian thing, the bass players are the absolute hardest to deal with. Insane amounts of bass power in tiny clubs. I got a little volume attenuator I stick in the fx loops on the back of the amp to try and limit that
 
I think for something like a wedding band, electronic drums would be great. Nobody cares about having real drums just like real amps. And most of the time they hate how loud a band with an acoustic kit is anyway.

For bar gigs, it's a tougher sell...maybe you have a house kit that drummers can use, but then there's a lot of setup work to make it comfortable to play, and what happens when a gorilla breaks one of the mesh pads? Otherwise you can use the cheap shitty rubber pads but nobody wants to play with that.

I will say they need to improve the quality of drum samples on modules. My $2000 Yamaha kit has the same crappy drum sounds as a sampler from the late 80's. Any modern drum sample plugin destroys for realistic sound.
 
Jarick said:
I think for something like a wedding band, electronic drums would be great. Nobody cares about having real drums just like real amps. And most of the time they hate how loud a band with an acoustic kit is anyway.

For bar gigs, it's a tougher sell...maybe you have a house kit that drummers can use, but then there's a lot of setup work to make it comfortable to play, and what happens when a gorilla breaks one of the mesh pads? Otherwise you can use the cheap shitty rubber pads but nobody wants to play with that.

I will say they need to improve the quality of drum samples on modules. My $2000 Yamaha kit has the same crappy drum sounds as a sampler from the late 80's. Any modern drum sample plugin destroys for realistic sound.
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If the mesh head breaks, it's the same situation as if a regular drum head breaks, right? You can either continue the show without that drum or you have to replace the head. I've found that quality mesh heads are not more prone to breaking than a regular head. And replacing it would be even faster since you don't have to tune the drum.

Some of the newer modules have great sounds. The new Alesis have the BFD engine. Roland TD20 and up are great. OR you can also use a DAW with a drum software IF your band is already using the DAW for tracks and automation etc (which many modern bands do), the drum software wouldn't add much to the load of a computer that's already running a show.

I can see house kits being an issue though.
 
ucnick said:
If I am able to run my signal into the PA I prefer to play with my amp in front of me, although it does cause issues since I also sing a lot and need to have a monitor for my vocals. I have attempted to use IEMs many times over the years so I can hear my vocals and guitar but it doesn't work very well when no one else In the band uses them.

I'm not against using IEMs in general, I do keep trying. Last spring I was briefly in a band that attempted to do the silent stage thing (drummer didn't have e-drums so it didn't work out very well as they tended to drown out the IEMs) and I quit after 2 rehearsals primarily because they spent more time getting their system to work than actually playing. It was very frustrating, especially when the users are not that knowledgeable about running theirsystem..
Click to expand...
Setting up good mixes for the IEM's does require some know how; however, I would say that if the IEM mix is being overwhelmed by the stage volume, then so is the FOH (which is bad). The IEM's need to be sound isolating, and everyone needs to have BOTH buds in their ears for them to work correctly. eDrums actually help with this since no one can hear the drums AT ALL without using the IEM's :). Of course, since I play rhythm guitar with my Kemper and go straight into the PA, no one can hear my guitar either unless they use the monitors.
pipelineaudio said:
If I can get drummers into in ears, and theyre still bashing cymbals, I'll put the cymbal mics that dont go to front of house, but only broadcast and recording outs into their in ears and LOUD, sometimes it helps, but often they really can't hear the cymbals anyway. And sadly here in Hawaii, because of the whole Jawaiian thing, the bass players are the absolute hardest to deal with. Insane amounts of bass power in tiny clubs. I got a little volume attenuator I stick in the fx loops on the back of the amp to try and limit that
Click to expand...
I suspect that most drummers can't hear much above 7KHz. This is certainly true for most of the drummers I have ever worked with. as a result, they tend to whack cymbals and high hats like a mad gorilla. The cure with IEM's for me was EITHER: 1) Have the drummer get hearing aids to help with their hearing overall, then use closed back headphones vs ear buds for the monitoring. This approach has the advantage of the drummer can hear everything else in their world better too. or 2) on the IEM mix bus for the drummer, drop a massive high shelf eq on it so that the drummer is getting an IEM mix with a metric crap ton of highs in it.

Aside: Surely you don't expect us (especially "US" in Michigan where it was -1 this morning) to feel sorry for you in Hawaii ;).
 
OneEng said:
I suspect that most drummers can't hear much above 7KHz. This is certainly true for most of the drummers I have ever worked with. as a result, they tend to whack cymbals and high hats like a mad gorilla. The cure with IEM's for me was EITHER: 1) Have the drummer get hearing aids to help with their hearing overall
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:rofl
 
OneEng said:
Aside: Surely you don't expect us (especially "US" in Michigan where it was -1 this morning) to feel sorry for you in Hawaii ;).
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I don't know, it looks like there may be some clouds coming from Waimanalo side...May get a tiny sprinkle to interrupt the 75-85 degrees
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