Question about Intervals

[TSJMajesty]

I wonder if there is a resource somewhere that will help walk me through how to apply it?

Thanks.

This guy is great! Search his videos, and I'm sure you'll find a few that would help you get started. And he teaches the material very well!

 

[Eagle]

I don't agree with him here for the most part (and I usually like his channel).

I used basically this method when I was teaching and it worked every time, sometimes pretty quickly.
What is your problem with it?

 

[Sascha Franck]

I used basically this method when I was teaching and it worked every time, sometimes pretty quickly.
What is your problem with it?

Too little actual playing, too much memorizing.
Have a sheet with the chromatic "stream" of notes in front of you for a while and start playing triads and such. You'll know the notes on the fretboard in no time.

 

[JasonE]

This guy is great! Search his videos, and I'm sure you'll find a few that would help you get started. And he teaches the material very well!

I like Jake's approach to things. His explanations just make sense and he can back up what he says.

 

[TSJMajesty]

OP- sounds like you have a good handle on how to "get" all the chords from a major scale, so this video goes one more step, showing you how to create all the 7th chords. It's the same basic principle for how you get the Root/third/5th for each chord, but just adds in the 7th.

 

[Sascha Franck]

OP- sounds like you have a good handle on how to "get" all the chords from a major scale, so this video goes one more step, showing you how to create all the 7th chords. It's the same basic principle for how you get the Root/third/5th for each chord, but just adds in the 7th.

I would defenitly *not* go there before triads haven't been covered and at least partially explored.

 

[JasonE]

There are tools to learn the fingerboard that work and you start with that and pretty quickly you get it down.

This works and it’s basically what I did.

I got a chance to watch this. This is actually how I have done it. Tie this to the CAGED system and the 5 patterns and it shows a pretty complete picture where you can figure out where you are and where you want to go anywhere on the fretboard.

 

[Aelred]

FWIW, all my beginner instruction books (not CAGED) and scale diagrams published in Guitar Techniques etc. all default to the key of A.

The way standard tuning is set up, it’s kind of in C major but has no open C string as root. The books I have teach A minor as part of A and then tell you that’s C major.

The easiest scale pattern is E minor pentatonic – which is G major.

The scale shapes for 6 strings tell you where the notes are, but no one plays a simple scale shape in order and calls that music. Play the notes in a different order and rhythm pattern. Learn the notes of the scale on each string, then 2 at a time, then 3. Notice which scales are similar or the same in some places then mess up badly trying to shift from A major to G major via E and so on.

You can make music on 1 string, with slides, bends, hammer-ons and offs etc. Add some delay to play with and scale practice becomes fun and I feel like I am discovering how it all fits together rather than grinding scale patterns and wondering when it will all magically sink in.

Real beginner stuff. I find if I'm not enjoying learning I don't practice, whatever the "system" is.

 

[Aelred]

Sorry for the TL/DR post, but you got me thinking (as best I can manage). For those who struggle(d) with CAGED like me… I know the first link is to a Strap website, but I did check others and its largely the same.

From https://blog.revoguitarstraps.com/major-scale-guitar/

My protege fell into the best/worst thing about the guitar; that is, you can learn a few open chords, a couple power chord shapes, and a pentatonic scale, you’re off and running. The downside of this equation is that you can become a technical master of the instrument while still remaining an absolute beginner in the music category.

I agree with this, and while no “technical master” I could have a lot of fun. I did realise this was not getting me any further, just stuck here. So I tried the following (emphasis mine):

The following five patterns are based on the CAGED system and are the foundation for scale playing. Begin by memorizing these patterns.

I played/learned those patterns, grinding through uncomfortable finger-stretches (I’m old!). I see the same thing on most of the Beginner websites re CAGED and/or C major scale.

I hated it. I hated practice. I didn’t want to pick up a guitar except to go back to a couple of chord shapes and Pentatonic with max Gain that I had any fun. It was only when I decided to shift from Vertical to Horizontal practice that I actually learned all those notes and placements and how to shift from major to minor. I taught myself how to get where I needed to be without finger-stretching pain on those patterns. I move my hand on the neck if it’s a reach.

Learn C major and you get A minor as well. C minor, you get A major, E Major/minor and have G as well.

Standard tuning has E6 as the 5th of A, with D as the fourth right below it. I –IV –V just sitting there. So it’s in A.

The A is the 5th of D, with G as the 4th. So it’s in D.

E minor Pentatonic is the most obvious scale there is on it, so it’s in E minor, which is G major. So it’s in G. Or E.

That’s CAGED pretty much covered - by not following their advice. Sliding non-Barre and Barre chord shapes came “naturally” after shifting from Vertical to Horizontal.

YMMV. I'm no expert, just sharing my personal struggle with CAGED, which I have overcome. It's a popular system, so it may suit you perfectly.

 

[Sascha Franck]

C minor, you get A major, E Major/minor and have G as well.

That must be a typo.

 

[Eagle]

Sorry for the TL/DR post, but you got me thinking (as best I can manage). For those who struggle(d) with CAGED like me… I know the first link is to a Strap website, but I did check others and its largely the same.

From https://blog.revoguitarstraps.com/major-scale-guitar/

My protege fell into the best/worst thing about the guitar; that is, you can learn a few open chords, a couple power chord shapes, and a pentatonic scale, you’re off and running. The downside of this equation is that you can become a technical master of the instrument while still remaining an absolute beginner in the music category.

I agree with this, and while no “technical master” I could have a lot of fun. I did realise this was not getting me any further, just stuck here. So I tried the following (emphasis mine):

The following five patterns are based on the CAGED system and are the foundation for scale playing. Begin by memorizing these patterns.

I played/learned those patterns, grinding through uncomfortable finger-stretches (I’m old!). I see the same thing on most of the Beginner websites re CAGED and/or C major scale.

I hated it. I hated practice. I didn’t want to pick up a guitar except to go back to a couple of chord shapes and Pentatonic with max Gain that I had any fun. It was only when I decided to shift from Vertical to Horizontal practice that I actually learned all those notes and placements and how to shift from major to minor. I taught myself how to get where I needed to be without finger-stretching pain on those patterns. I move my hand on the neck if it’s a reach.

Learn C major and you get A minor as well. C minor, you get A major, E Major/minor and have G as well.

Standard tuning has E6 as the 5th of A, with D as the fourth right below it. I –IV –V just sitting there. So it’s in A.

The A is the 5th of D, with G as the 4th. So it’s in D.

E minor Pentatonic is the most obvious scale there is on it, so it’s in E minor, which is G major. So it’s in G. Or E.

That’s CAGED pretty much covered - by not following their advice. Sliding non-Barre and Barre chord shapes came “naturally” after shifting from Vertical to Horizontal.

YMMV. I'm no expert, just sharing my personal struggle with CAGED, which I have overcome. It's a popular system, so it may suit you perfectly.

How could anyone struggle with the caged idea?
I don’t really play caged shapes much but I use it to visualise the fingerboard. I use three notes per string stapes mostly because it gives me a new shape for every mode of whatever the parent scale is.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I use three notes per string stapes mostly because it gives me a new shape for every mode of whatever the parent scale is.

That just doesn't make much sense. The shapes of the major scale stay the same, regardless of what mode you're in.

 

[Aelred]

How could anyone struggle with the caged idea?
I don’t really play caged shapes much but I use it to visualise the fingerboard. I use three notes per string stapes mostly because it gives me a new shape for every mode of whatever the parent scale is.

I thought I explained that at length.

 

[Aelred]

Is G the relative minor (6th) of E and vice versa?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Is G the relative minor (6th) of E and vice versa?

E minor is the relative minor of G major. Not the other way around.

 

[Aelred]

Right, so if you learn the E minor scale, you pretty much have G major. If you have G minor, you pretty much have E major.

Or is this totally wrong?

 

[Eagle]

That just doesn't make much sense. The shapes of the major scale stay the same, regardless of what mode you're in.

Seven not five though.
I use seven for each of major, melodic and harmonic minor. And basically one for each scale degree of anything else I use unless it’s symmetrical .

 

[Sascha Franck]

Seven not five though.

Who was talking about five? Not me.

And basically one for each scale degree of anything else I use unless it’s symmetrical

One of exactly what for each scale degree?

 

[Aelred]

"The following five patterns are based on the CAGED system" was from the link I provided, as well as many other websites dealing with CAGED.

E.g. "The Major Scale in All 5 CAGED Positions" from https://www.guitarorb.com/caged-major-scale/ and so on.

I learned the A major and minor scales string by string, then adding strings one by one Horizontally. I did the same with G major and minor. Add the relative 6th and I also learned C and E at the same time, I just needed a mental adjustment to apply it. Add D and I was having so much more fun than learning the 5 patterns Vertically.

Put a 7th chord (say, A7) in a Looper and play A major and minor over and around ity etc. Fun and learning for me, anyway.

YMMV. If you like CAGED, enjoy!

 

[Eagle]

Who was talking about five? Not me.



One of exactly what for each scale degree?

One two octave shape for whatever mode of whatever scale I’m using at that moment but it constantly changes because I tend to connect whatever interval I want against a chord. The framework in my head is a two octave three notes per string scale of the particular interval relative to it .It’s more about familiarity and instant recall of what I’m using for that particular phrase. But with passing tones, enclosure and arpeggios also to draw from. It helps me see the intervals change with the chord. I tend not to think about notes names in the moment which would be far simpler.