Pete Thorn ToneX video!!!

[Sascha Franck]

very strong opinions they haven’t learned to temper.

Regarding certain (and even several) things, we don't have time to temper anymore.

 

[Bruce]

Can't find that very thread on Twitter, but I absolutely understand any such reactions on this very matter.

I’ll tell you this much. You’ll never get anyone to see your point of view if you’re browbeating them. People that are lost and have made up their minds will probably stay that way. A whole bunch of people are in the middle and will listen to both sides of an issue. THOSE are the folks you want to win. You win no one with fuck you. All you do is alienate people, show your ass to the world and create 7 page long threads on how shitty you are to people. Not to mention strengthen the other sides argument by not being able to effectively discuss your points.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I’ll tell you this much. You’ll never get anyone to see your point of view if you’re browbeating them. People that are lost and have made up their minds will probably stay that way. A whole bunch of people are in the middle and will listen to both sides of an issue. THOSE are the folks you want to win. You win no one with f**k you. All you do is alienate people, show your ass to the world and create 7 page long threads on how sh*tty you are to people. Not to mention strengthen the other sides argument by not being able to effectively discuss your points.

I actually *do* see your points. All valid. But at the same time, regarding certain subjects, I can as well just perfectly understand how you can not temper down.

 

[Bruce]

I actually *do* see your points. All valid. But at the same time, regarding certain subjects, I can as well just perfectly understand how you can not temper down.

Nothing wrong with being passionate about an issue. The problem is when you stop effectively communicating.

Pete sees a problem. I see the same problem. I see a major problem with a complex solution, at least a solution that is actually viable in 2023 America. I’d love to rationally and calmly discuss my ideas for said solution with him someday if he could ever display the communication skills worthy of my time and dialogue, but that is probably never going to happen. Pie in the sky “well let’s just do __________ and fuck everyone and everything else” is simply never going to happen. How well has that worked out thus far? The problem itself remains, regardless of how many decades have gone by, how many people have farted in the Oval Office or how many laws have been passed/not been passed. Frustrating? You’re damn right it’s frustrating seeing the same horror time and time and time again and just a stalemate on trying to fix it. The TRUE blame? Stubbornness. It’s the stubbornness of the people in any actual position to DO something about it, because heaven forbid someone else may have a good idea. “This is our package, take it or leave it” doesn’t work in this case. Both ideologies will have to give in a little in order to solve this. In the meantime, this is just going to happen AGAIN, sooner rather than later. But our pal Pete just wants to parrot off whatever he read his team thought today. In his defense, he has a LOT of company, and that’s a big part of the problem.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Regarding certain (and even several) things, we don't have time to temper anymore.

At my age there’s not much time left period.

 

[Sascha Franck]

At my age there’s not much time left period.

Same for me.

 

[laxu]

People who actually want to talk about these issues will usually find others to talk with on their level of intellect. The trash will argue stupidly, while the schooled folk will exchange ideas and be all the better for it.

This reads a bit like Reddit's "iamverysmart" posts to be honest.

Online is a poor platform to argue about politics because you have no idea if the person behind a moniker is someone who has a way too black/white view of an issue (e.g "if you don't agree with me you are literally Hitler"), some person whose position can't be changed no matter how many facts you try to lay down, a Russian state troll trying to stir shit etc. In face to face conversation people tend to be more receptive because they can read if you are trying to have a honest discussion or not.

Based on looking at Pete's Twitter he seems to feel very strongy about a lot of stuff and seems frustrated with the situation. Media puts out a lot of "outrage porn" that gets people riled up and his Twitter account reads a lot like a collection of that.

Looking from the outside, US politics seem like a madhouse of treating political parties like sports teams.

Here in Finland we have a good number of different parties and it's more of an equal disdain for all but the most extreme ones. Those just get shit on more. We had elections recently and every party had lofty ideas for improvement but when elected all of them tend to maintain status quo because they don't want to be the party that made the more drastic changes that my country would need or it gets bogged down by parties bickering about the issues. Meanwhile "let's try something for 6-12 months and iterate or scrap it if it doesn't work" seems like a foreign concept.

 

[Bruce]

This reads a bit like Reddit's "iamverysmart" posts to be honest.

Online is a poor platform to argue about politics because you have no idea if the person behind a moniker is someone who has a way too black/white view of an issue (e.g "if you don't agree with me you are literally Hitler"), some person whose position can't be changed no matter how many facts you try to lay down, a Russian state troll trying to stir s**t etc. In face to face conversation people tend to be more receptive because they can read if you are trying to have a honest discussion or not.

Based on looking at Pete's Twitter he seems to feel very strongy about a lot of stuff and seems frustrated with the situation. Media puts out a lot of "outrage porn" that gets people riled up and his Twitter account reads a lot like a collection of that.

Looking from the outside, US politics seem like a madhouse of treating political parties like sports teams.

Here in Finland we have a good number of different parties and it's more of an equal disdain for all but the most extreme ones. Those just get s**t on more. We had elections recently and every party had lofty ideas for improvement but when elected all of them tend to maintain status quo because they don't want to be the party that made the more drastic changes that my country would need or it gets bogged down by parties bickering about the issues. Meanwhile "let's try something for 6-12 months and iterate or scrap it if it doesn't work" seems like a foreign concept.

You are correct. Discussing these things online often lends itself to a way bigger pool of people with varying degrees of competency on an issue than is constructively necessary. Once upon a time, when you didn’t know about something and you wanted to learn, you listened to and deferred to folks who clearly know more than you do. Online that is often difficult to tell. Due to my life experiences, on this particular issue I think I’m at least qualified to enter the discussion at hand which we won’t speak of here. I understand he has an opinion, but a layman’s opinion on an issue usually doesn’t lend itself to a viable solution. He displays little knowledge of the issue, it’s root causes, the reasons why the solution(s) he poses are not viable much less any communication skills in which to rationally discuss much of anything. I’m sorry, but “I’ve been to Japan, let’s try it their way” is naive and laughable.

You are correct Pete appears very frustrated with some situations. You think for a single second I’m not? Or the rest of us aren’t? Of course we are and we want this to change. Telling me to fuck off changes nothing, other than my view of you. A lot of people (voters) chattering about viable solutions, that can effect change. One mind can change two, can change four, can change eight etc etc. Pipe dream? Maybe. Better than cursing at one another, though.

 

[EOengineer]

I’d probably ask who you people is. 6’00 tall people? White people? Guitar playing people? Left handed people? Who’s you people?

Do you think the tweet Pete was responding to was talking about tall people? Regardless, civilized conversation is a two-way street, and it's obvious that neither side of that conversation you posted had much interest in hearing the other person out. If you can't see some attempt at provocation in that tweet, respectfully, I'm not sure you need to be in here lecturing people on communication.

 

[DrewJD82]

There’s a big reason I stay off Twitter; it’s a collective of the absolute worst opinions, personalities and people clamoring to make a profit off those opinions and personalities. When I remember I have the app, I go on and read Mark Morton and Devin Townsend’s tweets and try to close it before I venture out of that realm because NOTHING GOOD EVER COMES OF IT.

I follow Pete on there and he’s said before, that’s the one place where he speaks his mind. Won’t see him doing it on stage, on his YouTube channel or FB page, he just does it on Twitter. I’ve seen a LOT of people come at him for his views and often relying on something that makes very little sense to support their argument, IE, “You were born in Canada, why do you give a sh*t about US politics?” and I’ve seen him handle them in all manner of ways, but overall, Twitter isn’t where people go to have reasonable discussions about politics or the ills of the world, it’s where people put on digital boxing gloves and punch their own face several times while trying to get all the hot air to escape from their mouths. Regardless of their leaning or opinion.

 

[Bob Zaod]

Here’s the thing, musicians or even social media folks getting into political stuff particularly in the US leave themself open to loose about half their audience.
If principles are that important go for it, maybe a career in politics be better.

Bottomline…In life we are indeed free to do as we please, let’s just not forget that comes with consequences.

Yeah I have had a no politics self imposed law in bands since I can remember. Now that hasn't stopped some people from unprovoked engaging in it. It also hasn't stopped me from showing them the door either. I am a bit of a Heinz 57 when it comes to that but I noticed most people just have their belief and thats that.

 

[Bruce]

Do you think the tweet Pete was responding to was talking about tall people? Regardless, civilized conversation is a two-way street, and it's obvious that neither side of that conversation you posted had much interest in hearing the other person out. If you can't see some attempt at provocation in that tweet, respectfully, I'm not sure you need to be in here lecturing people on communication.


This is the way but honestly America is miles from here and there isn't really a framework that allows us to get where you are. We have two parties, both of whom intend to keep every bit of power they have, both willing to disenfranchise any and everyone they have to in order to keep that power. The further up the political ladder you go, the more apparent it becomes that both parties are effectively owned by the same corporations that are all now "too big to fail" and thus deemed permanent fixtures to be bailed out by taxpayer dollars in perpetuity. We're all too busy buying anti-socialism bumper stickers and T-shirts to notice that we've all been had.

I think I’m still qualified to call people out on poor communication skills, as I can see a whole heap of grey area in between you people and fuck you.

 

[EOengineer]

I think I’m still qualified to call people out on poor communication skills, as I can see a whole heap of grey area in between you people and f**k you.

Well, this is a great spot for us to agree to disagree.

 

[Bruce]

Well, this is a great spot for us to agree to disagree.

I’m with that.

 

[Gearzilla]

I think Pete’s trend in the replies more so than any one specific interaction best illustrates things. What that means is of course open for conjecture, however here really isn’t the best place for it.

 

[DrewJD82]

Mod Drew-

Reports are starting to come in (from both sides of this discussion). I’m not going to delete anything unless the person who posted it wants it deleted (you can do it yourself, FYI) but 2 reports in about 60 seconds is enough for me to say move on. You’re more than welcome to take it to PM’s but this hasn’t been about the pedal for a couple pages and we’re at the devolving point.

 

[Sascha Franck]

My oh my. Anyone who found something worth reporting in this very thread should possibly think about whether the internet is a good thing for him/her.

 

[EOengineer]

My oh my. Anyone who found something worth reporting in this very thread should possibly think about whether the internet is a good thing for him/her.

Tolerances vary. There is a reason most of these forums have the no politics/religion rule. People get their worldviews wrapped up in these things and that's literally the stuff wars are made of.

 

[Bruce]

I stand by every word I said. I think I followed the forum rules, too.

 

[DrewJD82]

My oh my. Anyone who found something worth reporting in this very thread should possibly think about whether the internet is a good thing for him/her.

Or just not discuss politics on a guitar gear forum. Especially one where one of the first rules is ‘no politics’