NDSP Quad Cortex

[dk_ace]

Fractal doesn’t offer captures and doesn't have a model of my favourite amp (Mesa Electra Dyne).

It also doesn’t have a floor unit in a size/format that works for me.

(I’ve owned the FM3 and FM9T.)

Thanks that makes sense. I think the FM9 is still gonna be the ticket for me.

Helix does the job fine, I’m kinda just wanting something new….

D

 

[SeeD]

I do suffer from tinnitus so maybe that factors in for me. YMMV

I do too. It`s getting bad, I need to play real low on volume when using headphones. So it`s the same on all the platforms on my end

 

[Jarick]

That’s interesting, that wasn’t my experience with it VS Fractal.

I felt like I was really struggling with the general EQ of the models in the QC. By the time I got the amps sounding how I liked I had an EQ block pre-amp and another EQ block post-amp along with a second noise gate to take all the noise I was getting on the device.

I didn’t find any amp models in the QC I thought sounded as good as the Fractal stuff, and the response of the QC amps seemed off. Like they transitioned into overdrive too quickly and not in a natural way

Comparing the Plexi models a little closer today, and I can hear what you're describing on the transition to overdrive. The QC sounds a little choppy/fuzzy and the gain/volume drops super fast as you turn down the volume. Fractal is a lot smoother when rolling down the volume knob. The QC also gets a lot brighter, so it may have something to do with the type of bright cap used?

 

[metropolis_4]

Comparing the Plexi models a little closer today, and I can hear what you're describing on the transition to overdrive. The QC sounds a little choppy/fuzzy and the gain/volume drops super fast as you turn down the volume. Fractal is a lot smoother when rolling down the volume knob. The QC also gets a lot brighter, so it may have something to do with the type of bright cap used?

Maybe so, that would make sense. I struggled to get clean tones out of the Plexi models in the QC. It seemed like I had to get the gain crazy low before they got there, and they seemed to transition into overdrive/distortion too abruptly.

Plexi clean and JCM800 clean are my litmus test for digital amps.

 

[TubeStack]

Spent some time with the Friedman Rhythm model yesterday. It is great, though I still think captures seem better, overall?

I also see the frustrating element of captures, in that I've found an amazing JCM800 one, but the gain is too high and adjusting it after-the-fact doesn't make enough difference.

 

[metropolis_4]

Spent some time with the Friedman Rhythm model yesterday. It is great, though I still think captures seem better, overall?

I also see the frustrating element of captures, in that I've found an amazing JCM800 one, but the gain is too high and adjusting it after-the-fact doesn't make enough difference.

I think the biggest problem with Captures right now is not having a good way for 3rd party creators to sell/provide them.

When you buy something like a Profile pack from MBritt you get multiple Profiles of the same amp at different settings, so you can find the ones that work best for you, and you can set up a few Profiles of the same amp to toggle between so you get the sound of bumping the gain on the same amp.

Since most Captures are just from individual users and are free you don’t have as much of that sort of organization of them. Most of what I see are just one-offs of an amp by some random user

 

[la szum]

That’s interesting, that wasn’t my experience with it VS Fractal.

I felt like I was really struggling with the general EQ of the models in the QC. By the time I got the amps sounding how I liked I had an EQ block pre-amp and another EQ block post-amp along with a second noise gate to take all the noise I was getting on the device.

I didn’t find any amp models in the QC I thought sounded as good as the Fractal stuff, and the response of the QC amps seemed off. Like they transitioned into overdrive too quickly and not in a natural way

Cliff posted some graphs and charts showing how the QC platform/algorithms used artificially hype
certain frequencies that are not intrinsic to the amps themselves.

 

[la szum]

Maybe so, that would make sense. I struggled to get clean tones out of the Plexi models in the QC. It seemed like I had to get the gain crazy low before they got there, and they seemed to transition into overdrive/distortion too abruptly.

Plexi clean and JCM800 clean are my litmus test for digital amps.

Nice! I love how I can use a different guitar and get a different response/feel/vibe from those amps.
The Fractal replicates those differences more closely than any other platform I have tried. It was
monumental for me when I discovered it, and it still is.

That level of responsiveness and sensitivity from the amp/model is non-negotiable. I need it to feel
like that amp all across the entire dynamic range, and not just in part, but in whole.

 

[metropolis_4]

Cliff posted some graphs and charts showing how the QC platform/algorithms used artificially hype
certain frequencies that are not intrinsic to the amps themselves.

That fits with my experience using them.

It felt and sounded to me like they designed it to enhance the thump and chug of high gain amps, but they apply that “sheen” to all the amp models. And it does not work with some of them. Like the Vox models.

The AC30 in the QC sounds like a caricature of an AC30 made by someone who has the vaguest idea of what an AC30 is, but has never actually heard one

 

[SeeD]

Comparing the Plexi models a little closer today, and I can hear what you're describing on the transition to overdrive. The QC sounds a little choppy/fuzzy and the gain/volume drops super fast as you turn down the volume. Fractal is a lot smoother when rolling down the volume knob. The QC also gets a lot brighter, so it may have something to do with the type of bright cap used?

I like the 100w plexi patch, becouse it is a bit fuzzy sounding. This is why I like the Bogner XTC also. I found out a few week ago that I had not been a fan the fuzzy models of amps, but now I love them.
The 50w Plexi amp model is more smooth sounding

 

[DrewJD82]

Always interesting how everyone hears things. I consider the Fractal darker and dryer than my time with the QC and Neural plugs. Not to the point of being a detraction mind you. I think the Frac records wayyyyy better in its natural state because it has an inherent clarity about it, and I never feel like I’m battling the 150-250 freqs.

That said, I agree Neurals amp modeling is pretty damn good, and easy as hell to dial in. They just need to crank models out at a faster pace, and put a lot of effort into their reverbs and delays.

I’ve alway been curious about these statements but never drilled down on it before. Since you’re a logical individual, here’s my chance

I never understood the “this modeler is darker/brighter” statements because I see them as ‘YOU make them darker/brighter with IR’s/settings”. Is this in a comparative “I used the same IR w/ the same settings and came to this conclusion” sense, or….not?

It makes me think of Cliff’s quote in regards to Bogner’s being dark, something along the lines of “People say Bogner’s are dark, but turn up the treble knob and you’ll find they aren’t dark at all”. Mainly because the 2nd or 3rd day I had my Shiva, I was playing and thought, “Man, this IS a pretty dark amp….maybe too dark”, then realized I nudged the Presence knob back when plugging in, turned it back up and laughed at myself.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Of course you can make everything sound brighter by turning up the treble / presence and turning down depth / resonance. But when an amp model sounds significantly darker than the real amp with the knobs at similar positions I‘d consider it… well… too dark. IMHO that‘s definitely the case with some Fractal models.

 

[DrewJD82]

Of course you can make everything sound brighter by turning up the treble / presence and turning down depth / resonance. But when an amp model sounds significantly darker than the real amp with the knobs at similar positions I‘d consider it… well… too dark. IMHO that‘s definitely the case with some Fractal models.

But what’s the control in this situation? What cab/speakers is the real amp played through? The same IR/power amp and cab? No one ever says this stuff, just blanket “It’s dark”…..in what context?

 

[Whizzinby]

I’ve alway been curious about these statements but never drilled down on it before. Since you’re a logical individual, here’s my chance

I never understood the “this modeler is darker/brighter” statements because I see them as ‘YOU make them darker/brighter with IR’s/settings”. Is this in a comparative “I used the same IR w/ the same settings and came to this conclusion” sense, or….not?

It makes me think of Cliff’s quote in regards to Bogner’s being dark, something along the lines of “People say Bogner’s are dark, but turn up the treble knob and you’ll find they aren’t dark at all”. Mainly because the 2nd or 3rd day I had my Shiva, I was playing and thought, “Man, this IS a pretty dark amp….maybe too dark”, then realized I nudged the Presence knob back when plugging in, turned it back up and laughed at myself.

You’re giving too much credit with “logical”

Preface, I think the AxeFX sound f’ing awesome, so darker/dryer isn’t meant as negative. I meant that relative to the device and plugs I was using before. I also think relaying sound descriptions is brutal, almost to the point of being useless via text.

I was trying to think “what do I really mean saying dry”. I think it’s because I find there is a ton of cut and clarity with Frac models. Without all the bullshit or mud (technical terms lol) maybe that’s why “dry” comes to mind as a description, but not really in a negative sense. I love that it sounds/feels super clear and crisp.

Dark. I say that because I’ve found almost all the tones I’m getting from the device thus far, especially during playback seem to have way less upper frequency hype in contrast to other devices I’ve used. Could be improved accuracy, could be the natural stance of the device, in either event I love the end results, because “dark” leans into my preferred sort of depressing tones. But that’s why I was noting some comments that Frac is too bright hasn’t been my experience at all.

But then we can get into how people dial in their amps and effects, ear damage/fatigue etc. And I will concede some of my opinion could be based on the fact that I don’t actually touch all that much on my blocks because I think almost everything sounds awesome by default. lol I’ve recorded shit and only caught after the fact that while demoing the amp to use I landed on one and literally never touched a single dial, it was all sitting at noon on the BMT stack.

 

[JiveTurkey]

If you think FAS stuff is dark; just grab a Dyna-Cab and your ears will open right up \m/

 

[Whizzinby]

If you think FAS stuff is dark; just grab a Dyna-Cab and your ears will open right up \m/

Dyna-Who? York Bogner 412 Mix01 4life

(Slowly surpassing my beloved Friedman 412)

 

[mikah912]

Dyna-Who? York Bogner 412 Mix01 4life

(Slowly surpassing my beloved Friedman 412)

Yeah, I still mainly use York IRs too (Friedman, DV77 and the P50E) as well as the ML "Bulb" cabs in the factory allotment.

 

[DrewJD82]

You’re giving too much credit with “logical”

Preface, I think the AxeFX sound f’ing awesome, so darker/dryer isn’t meant as negative. I meant that relative to the device and plugs I was using before. I also think relaying sound descriptions is brutal, almost to the point of being useless via text.

I was trying to think “what do I really mean saying dry”. I think it’s because I find there is a ton of cut and clarity with Frac models. Without all the bullshit or mud (technical terms lol) maybe that’s why “dry” comes to mind as a description, but not really in a negative sense. I love that it sounds/feels super clear and crisp.

Dark. I say that because I’ve found almost all the tones I’m getting from the device thus far, especially during playback seem to have way less upper frequency hype in contrast to other devices I’ve used. Could be improved accuracy, could be the natural stance of the device, in either event I love the end results, because “dark” leans into my preferred sort of depressing tones. But that’s why I was noting some comments that Frac is too bright hasn’t been my experience at all.

But then we can get into how people dial in their amps and effects, ear damage/fatigue etc. And I will concede some of my opinion could be based on the fact that I don’t actually touch all that much on my blocks because I think almost everything sounds awesome by default. lol I’ve recorded shit and only caught after the fact that while demoing the amp to use I landed on one and literally never touched a single dial, it was all sitting at noon on the BMT stack.

I wasn’t even coming from the ‘dark is negatve’ angle, you could have said “bright” or listed any other modeler and I would have posed the same question. I’ve just seen it pop up randomly over the years and was always curious what the control was because there’s SO many variables that can take something from mud to shiny that my assumption is that it’s more user-driven than modeler depenadant.

Hahahha I don’t touch anything in the effects blocks outside of the Mix and time/repeat settings where applicable. At most I’ll assign some things to expression pedals like chorus depth or delay mix/feedback, but as far as altering the actual sounds of the effects, that’s pretty much nonexistent.

 

[Whizzinby]

I wasn’t even coming from the ‘dark is negatve’ angle, you could have said “bright” or listed any other modeler and I would have posed the same question. I’ve just seen it pop up randomly over the years and was always curious what the control was because there’s SO many variables that can take something from mud to shiny that my assumption is that it’s more user-driven than modeler depenadant.

Well there is always the variable of different modeling methodologies used by companies too. (And hardware) I mean in theory a Plexi should sound like a Plexi, but I do think different platforms can have unique sound imprints just by the manner in which they model or create varying algo’s etc. At least that’s my theory. lol I mean despite my inability to articulate it effectively I do believe the two devices I'm specifically thinking of do have some general sonic differences, even though both have 5150’s that sound like 5150’s.

 

[Jarick]

I’d like to learn if QC can do a delay like the “Halo”

That would require 3/16 & 1/4 dual delay, control of flutter, modulation and crossfeedback.
I can’t find documentation on it, not in the manual, no “parameterlist”.

Can anyone point me to documentation, or give feedback if theres a delay in there with these features?

In theory the Dual Delay does. There are controls for cross feedback, it can do 1/4 and 3/16 in stereo, plus modulation. But it doesn't sound nearly as big and lush as a lot of other delays for some reason.