Modelling Hate ?

JiveTurkey said:
It's the monitors.
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This x 1,000.

I will admit that I tried Helix, Kemper and Headrush through the basic GC monitors (standard Headrush bottom-feeding junk) and thought they sounded like pure, unrefined a$$. Completely unredeemable, and unsuitable for anything other than bedroom wankery when nobody else is in the house....or down the street.

If the only time someone has ever tried a digital rig is through a cheap piece of junk ""FRFR"", they probably do think it's garbage, because the net result probably was. IMO, those bottom-of-the-barrel ""FRFR"" wedges have done more harm to the modelling market than anything else possible could.

Once I tried the Kemper through a decent monitor rig, I understood why people are beginning to use digital setups. Then I went out and bought a Axe-FX III, and the Bogner and Marshall stay safely at home.
 
AuntieDiluvian said:
This x 1,000.

I will admit that I tried Helix, Kemper and Headrush through the basic GC monitors (standard Headrush bottom-feeding junk) and thought they sounded like pure, unrefined a$$. Completely unredeemable, and unsuitable for anything other than bedroom wankery when nobody else is in the house....or down the street.

If the only time someone has ever tried a digital rig is through a cheap piece of junk ""FRFR"", they probably do think it's garbage, because the net result probably was. IMO, those bottom-of-the-barrel ""FRFR"" wedges have done more harm to the modelling market than anything else possible could.

Once I tried the Kemper through a decent monitor rig, I understood why people are beginning to use digital setups. Then I went out and bought a Axe-FX III, and the Bogner and Marshall stay safely at home.
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I agree that poor monitors will likely make any modeler sound bad.

I respectfully disagree about the implication that a QSC HPR 122i is a cheap piece of junk "FRFR".
 
Lopp said:
I don't know about you, but I cannot get my FM9, formerly an AX8, formerly the original Axe-Fx, through IRs to sound close to the way it sounds in person through my 4x12. I'll need to try others, but I've went through all of the stock Mesa 4x12 IRs and cannot get the thump or the sizzle of my actual 4x12. It is likely not the monitors, as I am using two QSC HPR 122is (sometimes IK Multimedia MTMs). It is definitely not the modeling, as running the AX8 through the Mesa solved the issue. I would be open to suggestions, but think I just need to keep searching for a grail IR, despite having played Axe-Fx since 2008. Either way, playing IRs through monitors was the biggest issue I have encountered in not getting a modeler to sound as good as my actual amps in the room
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You might just need to make your own. I did just that with a reference mic in my listening position, shot an IR, and A/Bed the IR to the cab. I went through the frequency spectrum small bands of frequencies at a time while A/Bing and EQing until they sounded nearly identical. Sure it's only in one position but it's my favorite position and makes for a good IR of the cab.
 
AuntieDiluvian said:
I didn't say anything about the QSC.
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Understood.
It did seem implied based on what you quoted:

Lopp said:
It is likely not the monitors, as I am using two QSC HPR 122is (sometimes IK Multimedia MTMs).
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JiveTurkey said:
It's the monitors.
Click to expand...
AuntieDiluvian said:
This x 1,000.

I will admit that I tried Helix, Kemper and Headrush through the basic GC monitors (standard Headrush bottom-feeding junk) and thought they sounded like pure, unrefined a$$. Completely unredeemable, and unsuitable for anything other than bedroom wankery when nobody else is in the house....or down the street.

If the only time someone has ever tried a digital rig is through a cheap piece of junk ""FRFR"", they probably do think it's garbage, because the net result probably was. IMO, those bottom-of-the-barrel ""FRFR"" wedges have done more harm to the modelling market than anything else possible could.
Click to expand...

Now I understand you were just making more general comments instead of addressing my QSCs. It's all good.
 
Alex Kenivel said:
You might just need to make your own. I did just that with a reference mic in my listening position, shot an IR, and A/Bed the IR to the cab. I went through the frequency spectrum small bands of frequencies at a time while A/Bing and EQing until they sounded nearly identical. Sure it's only in one position but it's my favorite position and makes for a good IR of the cab.
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That's a good idea.

Of course, based on current technology it still will not sound the way it sounds in person through my 4x12. There are too many factors affecting the IR, like the mic type, the mic placement, and everything else in the signal chain.

I am playing around with a filter and EQ at the end of the preset instead of an IR, which allegedly can give more of an amp in the room sound.

 
QSCs are good monitors. It's more about still being at the mercy of the physics of a traditional guitar amp and cabinet vs. the digital equivalent. Because it's not an equivalent. Sonically or physically. Even though it serves the same purpose. Caveat added for if you have the world's flattest monitor and have acquired FFIRs of your cabinet in the same room you are going to always play in blahblahblah (I've long since exceeded the small bit of scientific knowledge I do have etc etc).
 
JiveTurkey said:
QSCs are good monitors. It's more about still being at the mercy of the physics of a traditional guitar amp and cabinet vs. the digital equivalent. Because it's not an equivalent. Sonically or physically. Even though it serves the same purpose. Caveat added for if you have the world's flattest monitor and have acquired FFIRs of your cabinet in the same room you are going to always play in blahblahblah (I've long since exceeded the small bit of scientific knowledge I do have etc etc).
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One thing we must always remember to block out, we often hear with our eyes. Sounds ridiculous but in many cases it's true and it's obviously a mistake.
 
Lopp said:
There are too many factors affecting the IR, like the mic type, the mic placement, and everything else in the signal chain.
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True, which is why a reference mic, a vanilla mic Pre along with thorough A/B comparison and tweaking the response by ear got me very close results, even if the full range monitor projects differently.

I've only done this with 1x12 cabs so far, haven't had a 4x12 in a few years.
 
Alex Kenivel said:
True, which is why a reference mic, a vanilla mic Pre along with thorough A/B comparison and tweaking the response by ear got me very close results, even if the full range monitor projects differently.

I've only done this with 1x12 cabs so far, haven't had a 4x12 in a few years.
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That's a good qualifier about doing it for 1x12 instead of 4x12. The heard sound from a 4x12 is affected by soundwaves from the different speakers interacting with each other. AFAIK, there is no way to capture that effect without many limitations.
 
Lopp said:
That's a good qualifier about doing it for 1x12 instead of 4x12. The heard sound from a 4x12 is affected by soundwaves from the different speakers interacting with each other. AFAIK, there is no way to capture that effect without many limitations.
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Pretty much the same way you'd do it otherwise if all you're aiming for is the response from a single listening position. @jay mitchell has shared reflection free captures of a 4x12 and has made people dizzy talking about everything involved, me included :rofl
 
the only amp I've had was a katana when i first started playing and i dont know this amp in the room thing but i know that my "FRFR" sound much better :idk
 
Stone said:
the only amp I've had was a katana when i first started playing and i dont know this amp in the room thing but i know that my "FRFR" sound much better :idk
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I thought you were an old schooler that had a pile of Marshalls sitting somewhere but just decided to jump into Helix land?
 
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