Line 6 Helix Stadium

[mikah912]

Don't get me wrong, some stuff is pretty cool... but all of it? I dunno. Even if something would come from last at least if expect some kind of improvement/tweek aside from "taking advantage of the newer converters". Some of the more original/identifiable sounds like the growler or the particle getting revamped would be really cool, but aside from that it just ends up feeling a bit lazy IMO.

The thing is, people have different takes on which one of the legacy effects or amps would be "pretty cool to have", so yes ...you put it all in there so they can decide for themselves.

If anybody looks at the feature set of Stadium compared to any other flagship modelers and thinks Line 6 is just being "lazy", then we have two completely different definitions of the word.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Don't get me wrong, some stuff is pretty cool... but all of it? I dunno. Even if something would come from last at least if expect some kind of improvement/tweek aside from "taking advantage of the newer converters". Some of the more original/identifiable sounds like the growler or the particle getting revamped would be really cool, but aside from that it just ends up feeling a bit lazy IMO.

A ton of FX that sound just as good as they did when they originally came out is lazy? What? They’re basically free extras.

 

[Lysander]

A ton of FX that sound just as good as they did when they originally came out is lazy? What? They’re basically free extras.

This reasoning bothered me as well when Helix brought back a lot of M-series "legacy" effects. Like, those have been featured on countless records - what are we even complaining about?

 

[Mooselake]

The thing is, people have different takes on which one of the legacy effects or amps would be "pretty cool to have", so yes ...you put it all in there so they can decide for themselves.

If anybody looks at the feature set of Stadium compared to any other flagship modelers and thinks Line 6 is just being "lazy", then we have two completely different definitions of the word.

In a sense the precedent is already there with the fairly long list of pre-Helix legacy effects in the OG. I have a feeling it's pretty inexpensive to port the OG Helix stuff into Stadium and beyond, so why not? I definitely don't see it as L6 trying to minimize new development. And with effects, there might continue to be a lot of overlap between OG and Stadium onward. I can think of a few areas where a lot more DSP muscle in Stadium might cause them to diverge (e.g., reverb and pitch effects), but I think for a lot of simple pedal emulations the full might and fury of Agoura might not be required.

 

[molul]

@Digital Igloo I'd understand if you can't talk about it but, is there any estimation on when will the Stadium be available for pre-order in Europe?

 

[GTR37]

JVM410H confirmed!

My guess would be the Silver Jubilee as I think Sam owns one
But a JVM even orange channels to start would be absolutely killer

 

[Tito83]

The thing is, people have different takes on which one of the legacy effects or amps would be "pretty cool to have", so yes ...you put it all in there so they can decide for themselves.

If anybody looks at the feature set of Stadium compared to any other flagship modelers and thinks Line 6 is just being "lazy", then we have two completely different definitions of the word.

That's true. I still think throwing everything in just feels off.

Never said anything about the feature set, I only said it related to adding previous gen effects in. And having a ton of features also doesn't mean it isn't lazy also, but again, not arguing about feature set.

A ton of FX that sound just as good as they did when they originally came out is lazy? What? They’re basically free extras.

Newer gen as good as last gen? Sure, that's why I think it feels lazy. And hardly free at 2K+ price point.

 

[molul]

Newer gen as good as last gen? Sure, that's why I think it feels lazy. And hardly free at 2K+ price point.

I get this, but the price point was never based on the effects blocks, but on the new features (Agoura, Proxy, Stadium, touchscreen which is also bigger, improved UI, wifi, Bluetooth...).

I do hope new effects come soon, especially on the fuzz section, which I've never enjoyed as much as my Big Muff Pi, Big Muff op-amp or Blackout Effectors Musket, and I'd love having a velcro fuzz like Shin Ei Companion (or for a more modern copy, SolidGoldFX Sasori).

I also long for polyphonic synths, a flanger based on the Boss BF3, a phaser based on Boss PH2 (I loved its rise, fall and step modes), a chorus that sounds like Boss CE5, a mod reverb like Boss RV5...

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Line6 won't stop adding effects to the Stadium. I understand they didn't focus on that for the first release and I'm happy they didn't delay the release until they had a big bunch of new effects. There's stuff to anticipate once it's released.

 

[Tito83]

I get this, but the price point was never based on the effects blocks, but on the new features (Agoura, Proxy, Stadium, touchscreen which is also bigger, improved UI, wifi, Bluetooth...).

I do hope new effects come soon, especially on the fuzz section, which I've never enjoyed as much as my Big Muff Pi, Big Muff op-amp or Blackout Effectors Musket, and I'd love having a velcro fuzz like Shin Ei Companion (or for a more modern copy, SolidGoldFX Sasori).

I also long for polyphonic synths, a flanger based on the Boss BF3, a phaser based on Boss PH2 (I loved its rise, fall and step modes), a chorus that sounds like Boss CE5, a mod reverb like Boss RV5...

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Line6 won't stop adding effects to the Stadium. I understand they didn't focus on that for the first release and I'm happy they didn't delay the release until they had a big bunch of new effects. There's stuff to anticipate once it's released.

I get it was not based on the effects "alone", but it for sure is included in the feature set. And the lack of attention they are getting at this point feels weird to me.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Newer gen as good as last gen? Sure, that's why I think it feels lazy. And hardly free at 2K+ price point.

I guess if you were buying it JUST for old effects. This is as illogical as the guy that wants to completely remove the capture part of the software, lol.

 

[molul]

I get it was not based on the effects "alone", but it for sure is included in the feature set. And the lack of attention they are getting at this point feels weird to me.

When you develop software, and in this case, together with hardware, you have to estimate what you want to do and how long it will take. Resources are limited, so you have to focus on what you think will help sales the most. What they've shown makes sense, and we would only have gotten more effects if they invested more time, but users didn't really ask for more effects, at least not more than they've asked for other features they're including.

If they don't add any new effect in the next few updates, that would be weird to me too.

 

[Tito83]

I guess if you were buying it JUST for old effects. This is as illogical as the guy that wants to completely remove the capture part of the software, lol.

At this point there's been zero (as far as I know) word about new effects. Fair assumption they'll happen soon, but at this point it very much is a said top tier unit costing 2k+ at launch that, again, as far as we know, will come out from factory with only last gen effects. You may disagree, I personally think it's lazy. They might be holding stuff in about this, they even probably are, but at this point, with the information I have, no assumptions made, I don't really like it.

When you develop software, and in this case, together with hardware, you have to estimate what you want to do and how long it will take. Resources are limited, so you have to focus on what you think will help sales the most. What they've shown makes sense, and we would only have gotten more effects if they invested more time, but users didn't really ask for more effects, at least not more than they've asked for other features they're including.

If they don't add any new effect in the next few updates, that would be weird to me too.

Don't disagree with anything really, still don't like the idea of a unit like this coming out with the stuff that were announced at this point.

And I get it, my idea of what's better is my idea. They certainly have a way better understanding about market demands, what will sell or won't, that's for sure.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

@Digital Igloo is this just misleading from LivePlayRock, or is it actually a clip of the Stadium? My guess is that they're using Helix models as a teaser.



Edit: It's just a Helix clip. Answer was buried in the comments. Not cool, Liveplayrock.

 

[Mongillo19]

@Digital Igloo is this just misleading from LivePlayRock, or is it actually a clip of the Stadium? My guess is that they're using Helix models as a teaser.

I'm assuming misleading since I can't imagine pulling up the Revv Red and thinking that's the first thing that I'll play/that's what people will want to hear for that amp

But I'll be curious what DI says

 

[Lysander]

@Digital Igloo is this just misleading from LivePlayRock, or is it actually a clip of the Stadium? My guess is that they're using Helix models as a teaser.

It's the Bogner Ecstasy model from OG Helix (and sounding really damn good!).

Bogner Ecstasy Style | HELIX HX STOMP Presets + IR by Liveplayrock

Explore Bogner Ecstasy tones with Line 6 HELIX HX STOMP, using Liveplayrock presets and IRs. Inspired by the German Xtra modeler, perfect for pro guitarists

liveplayrock.com

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

It's the Bogner Ecstasy model from OG Helix (and sounding really damn good!).

Yeah, found that buried in a comment on the video. Not cool to imply that it was the Stadium, though.

 

[banned]

It's the Bogner Ecstasy model from OG Helix (and sounding really damn good!).

Bogner Ecstasy Style | HELIX HX STOMP Presets + IR by Liveplayrock

Explore Bogner Ecstasy tones with Line 6 HELIX HX STOMP, using Liveplayrock presets and IRs. Inspired by the German Xtra modeler, perfect for pro guitarists

liveplayrock.com

That does sound super. Wouldn't have guessed that was the XTC...got a nice raw edge to it

 

[Mooselake]

At this point there's been zero (as far as I know) word about new effects. Fair assumption they'll happen soon, but at this point it very much is a said top tier unit costing 2k+ at launch that, again, as far as we know, will come out from factory with only last gen effects. You may disagree, I personally think it's lazy. They might be holding stuff in about this, they even probably are, but at this point, with the information I have, no assumptions made, I don't really like it.




Don't disagree with anything really, still don't like the idea of a unit like this coming out with the stuff that were announced at this point.

And I get it, my idea of what's better is my idea. They certainly have a way better understanding about market demands, what will sell or won't, that's for sure.

I think because of the Helix 10-year anniversary they announced Stadium earlier in its development timeline than they might have had that event not occurred recently. DI has stated numerous times that they are still fully engaged with ensuring the Agoura Amp modeling is polished enough for public consumption. Rather than lazy I see it as rather sporty to announce and ship on the timeline they are attempting. Despite all the trappings, the amp modeling is still the core function of the unit (for most users) and it seems prudent to maximize resources towards ensuring a strong debut from Agoura.

I think effects are always going to be controversial in the Stadium world simply because I think OG Helix, with a limited number of exceptions, will be capable of running effects, or at least very good facsimiles of them, "developed for Stadium", leading to complaints of "It's a ripoff because they are mostly adding OG effects but calling them 'new'." I suppose L6 could pretend future new effects are too cool for school and not make them available in OG variants even when those OG variants have the DSP power to execute them, thus making Stadium appear to be a little more cork-sniffy and exclusive relative to OG than it is. That, IMO, would be lazy.

On Day One, I'll be content with a good sampling of Agoura amp models and the full complement of Helix effects I'm used to. I also presume the cabs will esentaially be the latest gen of OG cabs. I consumed nearly everything DI has said on the topic of Stadium and nothing has lead me to believe that L6 intends to abandon effect development. L6 has been clear that Agoura amp modeling is the focus right now, and actually I'm not even sure whether the Agoura topology is even all that relevant to most effects. It could be that really all they need to advance in that realm is the beefed up DSP. I mean, wiring harness capacitance and tube plate voltage characteristics don't seem particularly relevant to reverb and pitch effects, for example.

I understand the concern, and it's not for me to say what other people should consider, but I'd rather see them release something where Agoura hits the stage with its best foot forward. With L6 I'm willing to take a flyer that they'll do their best to add effects that rival best-in-class over time.

 

[GTR37]

Yeah, found that buried in a comment on the video. Not cool to imply that it was the Stadium, though.

I think DI said in another post no one except for Line6 team and a couple of beta testers have the actual units at this point

 

[HotRats]

At this point there's been zero (as far as I know) word about new effects. Fair assumption they'll happen soon, but at this point it very much is a said top tier unit costing 2k+ at launch that, again, as far as we know, will come out from factory with only last gen effects. You may disagree, I personally think it's lazy. They might be holding stuff in about this, they even probably are, but at this point, with the information I have, no assumptions made, I don't really like it.




Don't disagree with anything really, still don't like the idea of a unit like this coming out with the stuff that were announced at this point.

And I get it, my idea of what's better is my idea. They certainly have a way better understanding about market demands, what will sell or won't, that's for sure.

I understand you point but Stadium is not a new product, like was OG Helix.

Stadium is an evolution of the previous generation hardware and firmware. Having all the original Helix fxs and amps is a must. You need to them to load your presets into the new environment.

There are so much new things in stadium, so many improvements in almost every area that the word lazy sound off to me.

Anyway you are not 100% wrong here. I was expecting some new reverbs because they are still considered a "weakness" of the OG Helix fx offering.