Line 6 Helix Stadium

[TSJMajesty]

no resellers/distributors that need to take their cut.

That does not automatically mean their price will be higher than the price as sold direct-to-consumer. On the contrary, many companies offer volume discounts to the distributors, greater than their profit, partly due to the fact that the risk for selling those units now rests with those distributors.

As an example, I was able to buy one of my EBMM guitars for almost 20% less than one I purchased directly from the factory. I know part of the reason was the directly-purchased guitar was a one-off, so they weren't willing to give any sort of discount, but that didn't account for all of it.

If you were selling direct, one at a time, wouldn't you be willing to offer a substantial discount to a reseller, if they placed an order for 100 units, for example? Economy-of-scale also comes into play.

 

[bucephalus]

I don't get the hate for the name.

Next time the wife or another family members asks how my guitar playing is coming along I will reply: "Great! I will be playing stadiums soon!"

(Apologies if the joke has been made before. This hype train is too fast for me...)

Oh man, that Chas was such a dick to Morph.

 

[dk_ace]

I don't want to derail (any more ) this thread, but search a couple AxeFX II vs AxeFX III shootouts in the YouTubez. I think you'll be surprised.

I had the first axe-fx. It was damn good. People said ALL the things they are saying now about how it’s already there, more power won’t matter, can’t improve it much more, etc. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

The improvements he makes are small and incremental, but cumulative. Give him new hardware and three years of improvements and he’ll beat the current gen in a noticeable way. Same thing for team Helix.

D

 

[laxu]

There is no next gen Fractal device coming anytime soon. Matt at Fractal was quick to walk those comments back and say that the current gen would be sold for the foreseeable future.

It’s a bold strategy to mention the next gen with the intent to keep customers from jumping ship because you can end up sabotaging sales of your current product line. Why buy an FM9 or III if you believe they’re soon going to be Game Boy levels of processors by comparison?

Yeah the "Surprise! Here's a next gen box!" strategy that Fractal and Line6 have used in the past is definitely the way to go...even though there will be some disgruntled "God damn it, I just bought a last gen unit!" users.

I remember when the Axe-Fx III was launched and I had been contemplating selling my Axe-Fx 2 a bit earlier. The price nosedived for a good while after the Axe-Fx 3 launch. That coincidentally was my previous "Fuck this I'll just go back to tube amps" phase because I was so disappointed in the Axe-Fx 3's hardware design being so similar to Axe-Fx 2.

I'm currently in a "Do I really need all these pedals?" phase. Not to replace them with a multifx, but just a "How often am I even turning this on?" thinking. Delays and reverbs are the only things with true staying power on my board.

 

[molul]

I remember people saying Boss GT8's amp simulation sounded like the real thing, although that was proven wrong the moment you tried it xD

Maybe there's still room for improvement, sure, but as I said in another post, it looks like we're in the "PlayStation 4 to 5" transition in modeling.

Improvements in emulation are off course welcome, but at this point I'm way more attracted by things like Showcase, Bluetooth editing, a great UI, a VST companion or great effects than by a 5.2% "realer" emulation. I'm actually 100% happy with HX emulation engine already.

 

[laxu]

I remember people saying Boss GT8's amp simulation sounded like the real thing, although that was proven wrong the moment you tried it xD

Maybe there's still room for improvement, sure, but as I said in another post, it looks like we're in the "PlayStation 4 to 5" transition in modeling.

I think there's a lot of leeway in modeling accuracy depending on what you pipe it through. I loved many of the sounds I was getting from the 1998 Yamaha DG combo I had. A lot of others had nothing but positive things to say about its sound too.

If I put the Hotone Ampero 2 Stomp through a Fryette PS-100 and my favorite guitar cabs, it sounds absolutely kickass whether I use the full amp model or preamp only. I know the Hotone is not all the way there, but it's way more than good enough to be really fun to play.

PS4 to PS5 is actually a pretty big leap. IMO we are in more of a PS5 -> PS5 Pro situation for anything that is not UI/workflow related. Yeah it's better, but by a much smaller margin.

Improvements in emulation are off course welcome, but at this point I'm way more attracted by things like Showcase, Bluetooth editing, a great UI, a VST companion or great effects than by a 5.2% "realer" emulation. I'm actually 100% happy with HX emulation engine already.

Same. All the real "damn that's nice" moments for me in Line6's 10th anniversary presentation were things like Focus view, Showcase, per-output global EQs etc. Hopefully we'll get to actually hear the device before launch and be wowed by Agora modeling and any improvements they might've done to existing fx.

 

[HomespunEffects]

Why is everyone crapping on the Gameboy?

 

[Mikael Dez]

Why is everyone crapping on the Gameboy?

I fuckin loved the Game Boy though so HA

Idk, the Game Boy deserves a spot on the GOAT gaming platforms.

 

[Frodebro]

Okay, so I'm reading that very few people are running Fractals in Europe due to the pricing, yet I'm also reading here that Stadium will have a big impact on Fractal sales in Europe...

 

[Chocol8]

There is limited improvement available for simple single amp modeling but much more so when you expand that to full signal chains. More power will mean more things that can be done at once.

The other area the current generation of products could see major improvements in is speaker/cab emulation. Some of that may come down to the playback device, but IR’s through an "FRFR" do not sound like a modeler into a good power amp and real cab. There are a lot of reasons for it, but that’s something future development could address.

 

[Chocol8]

I get that guys in Europe would like to get Fractal gear cheaper, but why would a company selling out as fast as they can make stuff want to lower their prices?

If they want to sell a lot more product outside North America, they need to make more products and that can require some pretty expensive investment in capacity. Prices don’t always come down with increased volume, they often go up as well. Why would a small business make that investment just so they can sell for less when their current strategy is working for them?

 

[bucephalus]

Friggin' love a good cup of Earl Grey.

With a slice of lemon.

 

[laxu]

Okay, so I'm reading that very few people are running Fractals in Europe due to the pricing, yet I'm also reading here that Stadium will have a big impact on Fractal sales in Europe...

Both can be true.

On my used market here in Finland I've seen exactly one FM9 ever being sold. Either people like their FM9s, or there's not that many people willing to pay so much for it. Even the used one, despite being a fair price compared to the new, sat there for several months.

There's more FM3 Mk1 and Axe-Fx 3 Mk1/Mk2 units floating around. I expect many of these have been bought years ago when they were not only cheaper, but due to the currency value difference the EUR prices didn't seem as steep. Plus there was a lot less competition as Fractal sat on their throne for years.

 

[Lysander]

Improvements in emulation are off course welcome, but at this point I'm way more attracted by things like Showcase, Bluetooth editing, a great UI, a VST companion or great effects than by a 5.2% "realer" emulation. I'm actually 100% happy with HX emulation engine already.

+100. Of course i'm drooling in anticipation to try the new Agoura models but OG Helix sounds so good already that i wouldn't upgrade to a $1800 unit on sonic fidelity anymore.

 

[Frodebro]

I get that guys in Europe would like to get Fractal gear cheaper, but why would a company selling out as fast as they can make stuff want to lower their prices?

The tricky part here is that Fractal sells direct in North America, and through a distributor in Europe/Australia. If they were to follow the regular sales route in America and utilize the big retailers, the prices would undoubtably be at least 20-30% higher than they are now (in America). Line 6 has similar pricing on both continents because they use third party distributors in both places.

 

[Chocol8]

The tricky part here is that Fractal sells direct in North America, and through a distributor in Europe/Australia. If they were to follow the regular sales route in America and utilize the big retailers, the prices would undoubtably be at least 20-30% higher than they are now (in America). Line 6 has similar pricing on both continents because they use third party distributors in both places.

Yes, so to match their pricing overseas they would need to make more products and sell them (wholesale) for significantly less than they sell them direct. Sometimes that makes sense, sometimes it doesn’t.

 

[[Nathan]]

Seeing a lot of various helix units coming up for sale on FB marketplace, people are keen for the stadium

 

[Lysander]

Seeing a lot of various helix units coming up for sale on FB marketplace, people are keen for the stadium

Following a QC auction on the Swiss version of eBay, which is currently at... CHF 600, or USD $730. It ends on Friday.

 

[Frodebro]

Yes, so to match their pricing overseas they would need to make more products and sell them (wholesale) for significantly less than they sell them direct. Sometimes that makes sense, sometimes it doesn’t.

Exactly, and if Cliff were truly interested in ramping up production to those levels he would have already done so. That would involve a major expansion across the board (not just production, but also company personnel to deal with development, dealing with distribution, etc).

 

[molul]

Okay, so I'm reading that very few people are running Fractals in Europe due to the pricing, yet I'm also reading here that Stadium will have a big impact on Fractal sales in Europe...

Speaking only for myself, but I didn't specify that the impact will be in Europe only

Anyway, Stadium Floor is expected to cost 1800/2200€ vs Fractal FM9's 2300€, so indeed it can impact sales in Europe, although they'll be smaller than in America.

And the 1800€ price of the non-XL, together with the bigger amount of features and way better UI, can help it to sell better than what FM9 has been able to sell so far. It's 500€ less for presumable much more value.