Line 6 Helix Stadium

[BenIfin]

You’re skirting around that banning again aren’t you, at least you can be awarded champ champ status if it happens

I mostly agree with your take but I have to take a glass half full outlook on it. Lighthearted words met with a lighthearted response from Eric.

If both companies deliver on what they’re saying then we all win really

Man ... if my post deserves a ban that would be freakin' unbelievable !!!!

I was just calling out the post for trying to "sanitize" what Cliff said - to me, his post was not some benign objective clarification of relative processing power - his intent was very clear as demonstrated by the words he chose - look at all the sycophants in that thread that cheered and piled on - only to have to be hosed down a page or so late. Says it all.

Like I said before, could anyone imagine D.I or the head of YGG making a statement even remotely similar ?

 

[Mongillo19]

What really excites me about Agoura is that being component-based, we should see much faster turnaround times for new amp models. DI commented on this on a couple interviews recently.

Excuse my ignorance but what is Helix modeling currently?

 

[[Nathan]]

Excuse my ignorance but what is Helix modeling currently?

To me it sounded like it already had component modelling but with more processing they can go deeper into component modelling that they couldn’t do before. All very high level takes but at the very least, it was already component modelling.

 

[banned]

They have a GPU in it. They may be able to add an AI component and then it'll be next to indistinguishable (which it already almost is)

 

[Mongillo19]

Just some thoughts as I revisit Helix Native (as a sanity check if I really want the Stadium).

The newer models are quite good and imo mostly comparable to fractal counterparts. I do find the fractal models still have a weight or depth to them that still just makes it more fun to play.

Some amps like the MKIV are just so different. To me, the Helix Mark IV sounds bad and nothing like the IV on the FAS or how I recall my mark IV sounding. But then again, the helix ENGL Fireball model is absolutely killer. It just seems very hit or miss.

The reverbs in fractal land are noticably better along with the dynacabs. I haven't really jived with the cabs in Helix and often just opt for an IR.

Again, this is on Native so you have to consider input gain.

All in all, I will need to do some more digging. I really hope they release Augora clips before launch or at least an A/B from some YTers. Of course there is always the return window but alas.

 

[Funk Soul Brother]

Wondering what that will be used for. I could imagine several things.

Imagine a modeler fan UI/UX where screen upgrades aren't needed

 

[dk_ace]

Stating that the next gen Fractal thing will make everything look like a Game Boy seems like a good way to keep doubtful Fractal users to jump to Helix Stadium.

I mean, there's no release date for that, but if you're a Fractal die-hard user, and you know something potentially mind-blowing is on the works, you might probably wait a bit before putting your money on another company device.

At least that's what would happen to me if it had happened the other way around. If Fractal had announced a device like Stadium and Eric then said that game boy thing, I would totally wait to see what it is before spending 1800-2200.

I bet that persuades about zero users that are interested in stadium to not even try it.

D

 

[BenIfin]

f Fractal had announced a device like Stadium and Eric then said that game boy thing, I would totally wait to see what it is before spending 1800-2200.

This is really the key point though. Whatever anyone prefers - Cliff owns and runs Fractal and he made the statement.

Could anyone imagine D.I or the head of YGG posting something like the "game boy" comment - never . ever . going . to . happen.

 

[dk_ace]

We'll see, but i reckon these devices are already at the tail end of the diminishing returns curve: you can throw 10x the compute power at modelling, but you won't get the generational gains we were used to so far. Fractal, in particular, already sounds pretty stellar IMHO.

There's also the fact that modern mainstream DSPs are already (very) overpowered for pure audio applications.

People said we were at the tail end of diminishing returns curve when the axe 2 came out. They were pretty wrong….

I can max out FM9 turbo and helix floor dsps without breaking a sweat.

Bring on the power, and bring on the improvements!!!

D

 

[mikah912]

Just some thoughts as I revisit Helix Native (as a sanity check if I really want the Stadium).

The newer models are quite good and imo mostly comparable to fractal counterparts. I do find the fractal models still have a weight or depth to them that still just makes it more fun to play.

Some amps like the MKIV are just so different. To me, the Helix Mark IV sounds bad and nothing like the IV on the FAS or how I recall my mark IV sounding. But then again, the helix ENGL Fireball model is absolutely killer. It just seems very hit or miss.

The reverbs in fractal land are noticably better along with the dynacabs. I haven't really jived with the cabs in Helix and often just opt for an IR.

Again, this is on Native so you have to consider input gain.

All in all, I will need to do some more digging. I really hope they release Augora clips before launch or at least an A/B from some YTers. Of course there is always the return window but alas.

I'm sure more than a few people swept up in the amazing keynote will drop off. Hype bombs inevitably fizzle in the face of a long period of quiet. Summer hasn't even started yet, and the earliest anyone will be able to try this is 90-150 days AFTER THAT.

And it's not lost on me that I too have an amazing FM9 that does almost everything I need it to do now. It has amps and types of amps that I HOPE Stadium will get at some point in the future. Same for reverb diversity.

The question for me is whether I think it's more likely that Agoura modeling selection and Proxy captures will get to where I want them to be OR is it more likely that FAS actually focuses on the usability/UI issues in this generation or has a next gen planned to kill that dead once and for all?

We'll see....

 

[Frodebro]

Man ... if my post deserves a ban that would be freakin' unbelievable !!!!

I was just calling out the post for trying to "sanitize" what Cliff said - to me, his post was not some benign objective clarification of relative processing power - his intent was very clear as demonstrated by the words he chose - look at all the sycophants in that thread that cheered and piled on - only to have to be hosed down a page or so late. Says it all.

Like I said before, could anyone imagine D.I or the head of YGG making a statement even remotely similar ?

Cliff said that what he has in the works will make every unit currently on the market look like a Game Boy. That wasn't a poke at anybody, he was just letting people know that he's swinging for the bleachers with the fourth generation stuff. When the Axe 3 was first introduced, it was the same thing-emphasis on horsepower.

I think the typical Fractal user is predominately oriented in that direction, and Cliff knows this.

 

[Frodebro]

I'm sure more than a few people swept up in the amazing keynote will drop off. Hype bombs inevitably fizzle in the face of a long period of quiet. Summer hasn't even started yet, and the earliest anyone will be able to try this is 90-150 days AFTER THAT.

And it's not lost on me that I too have an amazing FM9 that does almost everything I need it to do now. It has amps and types of amps that I HOPE Stadium will get at some point in the future. Same for reverb diversity.

The question for me is whether I think it's more likely that Agoura modeling selection and Proxy captures will get to where I want them to be OR is it more likely that FAS actually focuses on the usability/UI issues in this generation or has a next gen planned to kill that dead once and for all?

We'll see....

Just remember, the Line 6 team are going to still be working on stuff for the Stadium in the interim. It's not like all development came to a halt when the release was announced. So that means there's going to be more coolness by the time we'll be able to get our hands on them.

 

[mikah912]

Just remember, the Line 6 team are going to still be working on stuff for the Stadium in the interim. It's not like all development came to a halt when the release was announced. So that means there's going to be more coolness by the time we'll be able to get our hands on them.

I fully expect as much. In the meantime, I'm going to continue to rep my FM9.

 

[ChordInversion]

They have a GPU in it. They may be able to add an AI component and then it'll be next to indistinguishable (which it already almost is)

What 'AI' specifically? I've built cloud clusters for LLM inference. I'd be surprised to hear of an implementation relevant to this use case.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

I really hope that Line 6 will rework the old Overdrive models from scratch. Like many others, I usually use an SD-1 or Tube Screamer in front of an amp, but the Line 6 models of these pedals are some of the most inaccurate digital emulations on today's market. At the moment I always use the Soldano SLO plugin from Neural DSP before Helix Native in my signal chain because the Tube Screamer model it contains is just so much better. The newer drive models such as the Plumes or Horizon Drive are more accurate, but in most cases I would prefer the good old SD-1 or a regular Tube Screamer. These two Overdrive pedals are the absolute standard, and I hope Line 6 gets them right.

 

[molul]

Another 20 minutes without the Stadium...

 

[Richard_G]

Perhaps intererestingly, this was posted earlier than Cliff’s post in that same thread on the Fractal forum (highlighted by me):

 

[the swede]

Perhaps intererestingly, this was posted earlier than Cliff’s post in that same thread on the Fractal forum (highlighted by me):

View attachment 46889

Ahh… of course

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fractal - Leadership position on many fronts well known

No, not many. It's just horsepower and sound. Seriously, over here, FAS is completely irrelevant for "the market". Pretty much noone plays their stuff, at least compared to all the others. It's a super-niche product. They could change that any day but apparently decided not to.

And I also don't see Kemper going out of the market any day soon. Prices may drop a bit, so the difference between it and the HX Stadium is enough to justify purchasing a "lesser" unit.

Also, as is, they have an actually working system to capture amps and an incredible wealth of profiles to choose from. It'll possibly take a year for Line 6 to release "Proxy" and at least another 1-2 years to catch up with captures.
They also have the best sounding reverbs and delays out of the all-in-one modelers (but FAS - see above).
And they have a great live capable unit. I said so before, if I had to choose an all-in-one unit today, for the gigs I'm playing right now, it'd be a Kemper Stage, pretty much without any question.

Sure, things will likely look completely different in half a year, but as long as the HX Stadium is unreleased (and even more so: not tested in the wild), most people will keep using what they're familiar with.

 

[sashimi]

Man ... if my post deserves a ban that would be freakin' unbelievable !!!!

I was just calling out the post for trying to "sanitize" what Cliff said - to me, his post was not some benign objective clarification of relative processing power - his intent was very clear as demonstrated by the words he chose - look at all the sycophants in that thread that cheered and piled on - only to have to be hosed down a page or so late. Says it all.

Like I said before, could anyone imagine D.I or the head of YGG making a statement even remotely similar ?

Man I don’t know. Aren’t you overreacting a little bit? I don’t think the comment is such a big deal. And not any worse than DI vaguely criticizing competitors, which he definitely has done, and I also don’t have a problem with.