Line 6 Helix Stadium

[Frodebro]

Speaking only for myself, but I didn't specify that the impact will be in Europe only

Anyway, Stadium Floor is expected to cost 1800/2200€ vs Fractal FM9's 2300€, so indeed it can impact sales in Europe, although they'll be smaller than in America.

And the 1800€ price of the non-XL, together with the bigger amount of features and way better UI, can help it to sell better than what FM9 has been able to sell so far. It's 500€ less for presumable much more value.

Honestly, I don't think there will be a huge impact on FM9 sales in America, either. The two companies are primarily focused on different segments of the market. Kinda like Friedman versus Marshall.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I had the first axe-fx. It was damn good. People said ALL the things they are saying now about how it’s already there, more power won’t matter, can’t improve it much more, etc. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

It's not about things possibly making a difference. But as has been said, we're in the land of diminishing returns in many aspects already. Which was pretty different some years back.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Just some thoughts as I revisit Helix Native (as a sanity check if I really want the Stadium).

The newer models are quite good and imo mostly comparable to fractal counterparts. I do find the fractal models still have a weight or depth to them that still just makes it more fun to play.

Some amps like the MKIV are just so different. To me, the Helix Mark IV sounds bad and nothing like the IV on the FAS or how I recall my mark IV sounding. But then again, the helix ENGL Fireball model is absolutely killer. It just seems very hit or miss.

The reverbs in fractal land are noticably better along with the dynacabs. I haven't really jived with the cabs in Helix and often just opt for an IR.

Again, this is on Native so you have to consider input gain.

All in all, I will need to do some more digging. I really hope they release Augora clips before launch or at least an A/B from some YTers. Of course there is always the return window but alas.

I went back and played with Native too, now that I’m in plugin land for a bit I may as well start getting used to Line 6 shit that’ll be in the stadium. That ENGL amp is I haven’t played with Helix shit for a long while!

 

[[Nathan]]

I had the first axe-fx. It was damn good. People said ALL the things they are saying now about how it’s already there, more power won’t matter, can’t improve it much more, etc. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

The improvements he makes are small and incremental, but cumulative. Give him new hardware and three years of improvements and he’ll beat the current gen in a noticeable way. Same thing for team Helix.

D

100% agree. It’s been proven again and again with dozens and dozens of firmwares. The fact that people can’t envision Cliff delivering meaningful upgrades through updated horsepower in the axe4 paired with an inevitable upgrade of Cygnus is kind of crazy. He’s been doing it month on month since 2018 with the axe3 already.

 

[Frodebro]

It's not about things possibly making a difference. But as has been said, we're in the land of diminishing returns in many aspects already. Which was pretty different some years back.

I agree that we're pretty much at the point where we can finally put the "it don't sound like my toob amp!" argument to bed, and have moved on to all the other things that digital brings to the table-signal routing, effects, stuff like that.

 

[[Nathan]]

I went back and played with Native too, now that I’m in plugin land for a bit I may as well start getting used to Line 6 shit that’ll be in the stadium. That ENGL amp is I haven’t played with Helix shit for a long while!

The Fireball is awesome and the 5150iii red is

 

[ian_dissonance]

IR’s through an ""FRFR"" do not sound like a modeler into a good power amp and real cab. There are a lot of reasons for it, but that’s something future development could address.

The reason IRs don’t sound like that is because they’re not supposed to, lol. The DO sound like what they’re supposed to - a cab mic’d up in another room while you listen through a speaker. Even if you COULD emulate the sound of a 4x12 directly, you’d still have to find a way to move the same amount air to “feel” like it.

 

[Mooselake]

... Same. All the real "damn that's nice" moments for me in Line6's 10th anniversary presentation were things like Focus view, Showcase, per-output global EQs etc. Hopefully we'll get to actually hear the device before launch and be wowed by Agora modeling and any improvements they might've done to existing fx.

I sort of had the opposite reaction. I mean, yeah, most those ease of use/productivity things were "hey, that's cool" moments but what really caught my attention was what was said but not said about Agoura. Line 6 is usually pretty understated about things which makes me think there's some there there. I'll be happy to hear some demos when they start to come out, but I think it's already been pretty well demonstrated that most of the modelers can create a sound that when recorded and played back is extremely convincing. So I'm mostly interested in the player experience. A few of the people at the anniversary who got a chance to try one out had positive comments on that aspect, but of course their experience may not be mine, and human nature is generally biased towards not crapping on people that have showed you kindness.

 

[Mikael Dez]

The Fireball is awesome and the 5150iii red is

Just tried the 5150iii

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

The Fireball is awesome and the 5150iii red is

Add the Invective to the list.

 

[GTR37]

I sort of had the opposite reaction. I mean, yeah, most those ease of use/productivity things were "hey, that's cool" moments but what really caught my attention was what was said but not said about Agoura. Line 6 is usually pretty understated about things which makes me think there's some there there. I'll be happy to hear some demos when they start to come out, but I think it's already been pretty well demonstrated that most of the modelers can create a sound that when recorded and played back is extremely convincing. So I'm mostly interested in the player experience. A few of the people at the anniversary who got a chance to try one out had positive comments on that aspect, but of course their experience may not be mine, and human nature is generally biased towards not crapping on people that have showed you kindness.

Very true if anything DI is known to be very calm and downplay stuff , so if he is excited cool

 

[molul]

Honestly, I don't think there will be a huge impact on FM9 sales in America, either. The two companies are primarily focused on different segments of the market. Kinda like Friedman versus Marshall.

Just curious: what's Fractal market segment and why wouldn't Helix Stadium be attractive for that segment?

 

[Mikael Dez]

Just curious: what's Fractal market segment and why wouldn't Helix Stadium be attractive for that segment?

So many professional bands that have used Fractal since it was a clear top dog (it still is) - and people that have spent over 2k for a Fractal and have learned how to get along with it and aren't going to jump to the Helix unless it's been vetted and a clear winner in the arms race.

 

[Lysander]

Just curious: what's Fractal market segment and why wouldn't Helix Stadium be attractive for that segment?

Like, the pros, dude!

Seriously though ... pros. Fractal always aimed more at studio / arena bands customers, which don't mind needing a PhD to properly program a device from the front panel.

I'm really looking forward to see what happens if (when?) L6 releases a Helix Stadium Rack. Then again, we might have the AxeFX IV Gameboy Edition out by then.

 

[molul]

Like, the pros, dude!

Seriously though ... pros. Fractal always aimed more at studio / arena bands customers, which don't mind needing a PhD to properly program a device from the front panel.

It will be interesting to see what happens if (when?) L6 releases a Helix Stadium Rack.

I thought it was the pros, yep, but wanted to know the full answer before giving my opinion :)

I don't know if Line6 is "powering" many bands, but for instance I saw Smashing Pumpkins using Helix Racks a few years ago (although mostly for effects, because Billy won't allow digital amps on stage xD).

On the other hand, I'd say arena bands usually have a tech guy who makes the programming for them, unless the musicians are nerdy enough. And if they are, I'm sure they would appreciate a way friendlier UI.

So again, I don't see why the Stadium wouldn't be embraced by that market if emulation quality ended up being identical. And there's also profiling, which Fractal still doesn't have.

The only remaining reason seems to be "not having to learn another interface", but how long will that happen? They will eventually have to learn a new interface when a new Fractal device is released (at least I hope they don't do like Kemper and take UX very seriously, for their own good), and Stadium's seems quite joyful to learn, kind of like when you switch from Pro Tools to Studio One xD

 

[Lysander]

So again, I don't see why the Stadium wouldn't be embraced by that market if emulation quality ended up being identical.

Note that there's still stuff Fractal does Helix (and most of the competition) simply cannot do. Fractal is still second to none when it comes to routing flexibilty, automation, programmability, etc. The fact that it has top-tier modelling and arguably the best original effects in the business is just the cherry on top.

This comes at a learning curve and UX cost, thou.

 

[molul]

Note that there's still stuff Fractal does Helix (and most of the competition) simply cannot do. Fractal is still second to none when it comes to routing flexibilty, automation, programmability, etc. The fact that it has top-tier modelling and arguably the best original effects in the business is just the cherry on top.

This comes at a learning curve and UX cost, thou.

I know nothing about those features in Fractal, but if they are not covered by what we've seen for the Stadium, they must be a huge deal :-O In that case, I would understand that Stadium didn't succeed.

 

[Lysander]

I know nothing about those features in Fractal, but if they are not covered by what we've seen for the Stadium, they must be a huge deal :-O

You and most people i reckon, because most of us have no need for those It's not like the Line 6s, NDSPs and Boss'es of the world couldn't match these features from Fractal; is just they choose not to.

 

[laxu]

I'm really looking forward to see what happens if (when?) L6 releases a Helix Stadium Rack. Then again, we might have the AxeFX IV Gameboy Edition out by then.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I thought it was the pros, yep, but wanted to know the full answer before giving my opinion :)

I don't know if Line6 is "powering" many bands, but for instance I saw Smashing Pumpkins using Helix Racks a few years ago (although mostly for effects, because Billy won't allow digital amps on stage xD).

On the other hand, I'd say arena bands usually have a tech guy who makes the programming for them, unless the musicians are nerdy enough. And if they are, I'm sure they would appreciate a way friendlier UI.

So again, I don't see why the Stadium wouldn't be embraced by that market if emulation quality ended up being identical. And there's also profiling, which Fractal still doesn't have.

The only remaining reason seems to be "not having to learn another interface", but how long will that happen? They will eventually have to learn a new interface when a new Fractal device is released (at least I hope they don't do like Kemper and take UX very seriously, for their own good), and Stadium's seems quite joyful to learn, kind of like when you switch from Pro Tools to Studio One xD

The Dear Hunter guitarist moved from a pedalboard to just a Helix and his Mark V 25.