Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Mooselake]

While we're waiting for the bugs to be squashed and more light to be shed on top-end stuff, can I once again gush about the Silver Jubilee

You can listen to me slaugtering this GNR riff. Sorry for the slop




Loving that kerang and chewy stuff when muting. This is my go-to now for crunch tones. It even works for cleaner tones, so I'm using it as a basis for my kitchen sink preset for now and will see if I can cover the ground I need with the band. If you haven't messed with this amp, I have to ask you to stop typing and get to it lol

I haven't even tried the jubilee model yet. It's on my list but there's just too many shiny things to distract me. Is that one of the ones where the default cab/mic choice is a little odd? I know so little about that end of things I just randomly try stuff without really knowing what I'm aiming for, lol.

 

[EOengineer]

Who could’ve predicted we’d be in here asking L6 to bring the fizz back. They killed the squirrels but unfortunately nuked the useful fizz in the heat of battle.

 

[JiveTurkey]

And because they have less choices, each model carries a lot more weight/responsibility.

Absolutely on this.

 

[MIJLOVER]

As a fence sitter, I'm pretty firmly in the "Do I need this? Why not just wait and see where it goes" for pretty much all modelers on the market atm.

It kinda sucks to be an early adopter of any software product as there will be bugs.

At the same time, I've got great pedals and amps, and don't need a huge variety of stuff.

I will say, as someone who would be considered an early adopter, I suppose, it's not too bad when the unit is this fun to use!

True, the bugs are annoying, and waiting for them to be squashed is probably wise for most people. But we need early adopters, and I'm happy to be of service lol

What I personally enjoy about it is that I get to unpack every update from the beginning. Right now, there aren't too many new amps and features that have been added, which means I've had more time and impetus to work with what's there, and discovered things I could've missed had I joined in on the fun later in the year.

 

[Chocol8]

What if full blasting treble isn't enough and then you have no more room? That doesn't frustrate you?

There's usually other controls in a full fledged modeler that can get you there. It doesn't all have to be in the amp block, and it doesn't have to look exactly like your settings on a similar but different model amp. Perhaps just a brighter IR will do the trick.

On the flip side, what do you do with a real amp where the control doesn't go far enough? Get out the soldering iron or buy a different amp! How many Fender and Marshall amps and derivatives have modified tone stacks with either bigger value mid pots or some sort of boost/fat/whatever switch that adds resistance to ground or lifts the tone stack completely? I'd rather a modeler have controls that that go well beyond what the base amp and it controls are capable of than have one where when all the numbers on the controls match a certain master amp, it sounds exactly like that amp...unless I happen to own the exact amp modeled.

 

[sashimi]

One thing I am learning from this discussion is that a lot of you guys like enough treble to blow one’s face off completely, whereas I like just enough to peel the face back back half way when my wah is in the toe down position

 

[Dez]

One thing I am learning from this discussion is that a lot of you guys like enough treble to blow one’s face off completely, whereas I like just enough to peel the face back back half way when my wah is in the toe down position

I need the ice pick for kvlt winter riffs

 

[MIJLOVER]

It sounds cool, and if you aren't fussed about how the real thing sounds, thats all that matters. They have a lot of tonal variation and there's tons of ways to dial them in.


I mean, it's cool sounding in isolation, but it's not really something that'll sway me to thinking that Agoura does have enough top and bottom end to it. There's too many variables person to person to draw any conclusions though.

Just for kicks, here's my version of it with a Silver Jubilee (obviously I have more gain, a different IR and different amp settings so its apples and oranges). I don't really think of the Jubilee as a particularly bright or fizzy amp, but it is a Marshall.... Equal apologies to any GNR fans for the slop, I haven't played this riff for ages

Thanks for sharing. Love the more mid scooped and gainy sounds too!

I turned the gain quite a bit down from the starting place that was chosen for "Saul gain" (I use something closer to that sound for lead and fun!) and threw in a drive pedal with almost no gain. I've also played around with the gain higher and less mids. As you say, there are tons of ways to dial this beast in.

But when it comes to amps like the Silver Jubilee, I kinda have to go with what sounds good and/or find examples of sounds I want to try to nail, since I haven't owned this amp in real life. I wrongly assumed it wouldn't be in my and stuck with a Bluesbreaker and later a JVM for quite a few years.


While the model sounds epic, I do want it to be accurate to the real amp. Deviations from that should be made with other blocks and the hype knob, imo.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

One thing I am learning from this discussion is that a lot of you guys like enough treble to blow one’s face off completely, whereas I like just enough to peel the face back back half way when my wah is in the toe down position

As long as the model is accurate to the real amp, I’m happy. That’ll give the intended range to dial things in appropriately for whatever’s needed. If you have to resort to external EQ or mangling IR’s, you can certainly get where you need but it’s a bit pointless to use any kind of emulation at that point. And you’re giving yourself more steps and pushing yourself more into a corner. And IMO, stacking up extra levels of processing can easily lead to a weird result compared to just keeping it as basic as possible.

I think a lot of guitarists who aren’t really studio guys tend to dial things very very dark. For jamming and general playing, it makes total sense. I wouldn’t call my tones bright - if you listen to a lot of studio recordings (like GnR) it’s probably way brighter. On recordings, it can be an eye opener just how much top end is needed.

Again, for me, preference doesn’t really come into the discussion as it’s always going to be there. I just want modellers to sound like what they’re intended to and we can handle the rest individually,

 

[Deleted member 3656]

One thing I am learning from this discussion is that a lot of you guys like enough treble to blow one’s face off completely, whereas I like just enough to peel the face back back half way when my wah is in the toe down position

I often use treble cuts... But I want that decision to be mine.

I don't need a unit, company or their shareholders telling me how to live my life.

Give me accurate treble... and then let me remove it myself, thanks.

 

[EOengineer]

There's usually other controls in a full fledged modeler that can get you there. It doesn't all have to be in the amp block, and it doesn't have to look exactly like your settings on a similar but different model amp.

A similar yet different amp that just so happens to be nearly identical to Fractal’s model. We have 3 points of comparison and Stadium is the outlier. Your logic would hold up if we were only an A/B test, but it’s not.

 

[MIJLOVER]

I haven't even tried the jubilee model yet. It's on my list but there's just too many shiny things to distract me. Is that one of the ones where the default cab/mic choice is a little odd? I know so little about that end of things I just randomly try stuff without really knowing what I'm aiming for, lol.

Yeah, I swapped the cab to the Cartographer with the Guvnor speakers. I used a dual cab with two SM57s (one at a 45-degree angle/Fredman). Sounds good through a variety of cabs, though. I just landed on that one, and I like it as a good all-around sound for this preset.

 

[EOengineer]

I really wish we’d get an exposed parameter for SIC in Stadium. It would be very useful from a component isolation troubleshooting perspective.

 

[Chocol8]

A similar yet different amp that just so happens to be nearly identical to Fractal’s model. We have 3 points of comparison and Stadium is the outlier. Your logic would hold up if we were only an A/B test, but it’s not.

First of all, 3 points is meaningless. Give me a test with a half dozen MK III's made years apart compared to the two modelers and then you might start to have an idea which ones are outliers. It could be that both the fractal model and the amp being compared are brighter than 90% of the real amps out there. You wouldn't know from 3 data points.

That said, I am not arguing that Stadium doesn't have an issue. It might. I am just saying 1) does it really matter if you can dial it in to sound great? And 2) the methodology of of comparing gear with the knobs set to the same position and not with the devices dialed in to sound the same is horribly flawed whether you are talking modelers, amps, pedals or whatever. It's a simplistic way to do a test, but it's lazy garbage in, garbage out.

 

[sashimi]

As long as the model is accurate to the real amp, I’m happy. That’ll give the intended range to dial things in appropriately for whatever’s needed. If you have to resort to external EQ or mangling IR’s, you can certainly get where you need but it’s a bit pointless to use any kind of emulation at that point. And you’re giving yourself more steps and pushing yourself more into a corner. And IMO, stacking up extra levels of processing can easily lead to a weird result compared to just keeping it as basic as possible.

I think a lot of guitarists who aren’t really studio guys tend to dial things very very dark. For jamming and general playing, it makes total sense. I wouldn’t call my tones bright - if you listen to a lot of studio recordings (like GnR) it’s probably way brighter. On recordings, it can be an eye opener just how much top end is needed.

Again, for me, preference doesn’t really come into the discussion as it’s always going to be there. I just want modellers to sound like what they’re intended to and we can handle the rest individually,

Makes sense. I am not totally without experience in the studio, but I lean more in the direction of stratocaster vintage lofi garage and surf rock to Hendrix fuzz psych rock and not the humbuckers pounding a roaring marshall kind of stuff that demands a lot of top end from an amp.

 

[EOengineer]

First of all, 3 points is meaningless. Give me a test with a half dozen MK III's made years apart compared to the two modelers and then you might start to have an idea which ones are outliers. It could be that both the fractal model and the amp being compared are brighter than 90% of the real amps out there. You wouldn't know from 3 data points.

We now have tests across the 5153, 2C+, Jub, and others that all show the same dull top end on the Stadium examples and a MUCH closer match on the fractal side when compared against our real amps. Fractal must have some luck picking only amps that sound like our forum members amps.

 

[Chocol8]

We now have tests across the 5153, 2C+, Jub, and others that all show the same dull top end on the Stadium examples and a MUCH closer match on the fractal side when compared against our real amps. Fractal must have some luck picking only amps that sound like our forum members amps.

There's a lot more potentially going on there. It probably is a Stadium issue but I think you are WAY overconfident in the data.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

We now have tests across the 5153, 2C+, Jub, and others that all show the same dull top end on the Stadium examples and a MUCH closer match on the fractal side when compared against our real amps. Fractal must have some luck picking only amps that sound like our forum members amps.

And not just Fractal, but also Helix Legacy models. Those were generally speaking very close (aside from the 2204 and bright cap things).

 

[Dez]

One of y'all needs to borrow a QC to spice this comparison theme up, and maybe throw in a Headrush unit.

 

[EOengineer]

One of y'all needs to borrow a QC to spice this comparison theme up, and maybe throw in a Headrush unit.

If there’s anything we don’t need, it’s their bot farm finding its way to this forum. Insufferable shitheads.