Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[mikah912]

Yeah, so my intent was to avoid an “Agoura is wrong because it doesn’t sound like Fractal” narrative as I really just wanted to observe the difference with matching parameter values and IR.

I'm glad you have this perspective at the very least. These Agoura vs. AM4/FM9/Axe-FX III shootouts are worthless to me for that very reason.

There's not a signature or notable Mark IIC+ tone I'm unable to get with the Stadium Mark IIC+, and I just use the typical Mark way of dialing for all of my gain sounds (bass super low, mids kinda there and treble up quite high - graphic EQ scooped to taste).

As a counterpoint to your comparison, when the Mark IIC+ first dropped, I used a "5-Minute Tones" Leon Todd video where he dials in the Mark IIC+ model and then used the same settings on Agoura with his signature IR.

Sounded waaaaaaaaaaaaay closer than this particular A/B.

Ultimately, my concerns of accuracy or authenticity is whether Line 6 nailed it compared to the amps they own. I remember in the early Helix days, they fielded similar concerns and posted A/B clips of their actual amps vs their models. Maybe they'll do the same here, but it's not going to move me one way or another.

That being said, they do and should continue to listen to data when multiple people in good faith note discrepancies with the real life amps they own as well. I respect the hell out of the fact they don't bury their heads in the sand or tune out constructive criticism when it comes to this sort of thing (hence the "James Freeman" 2203).

 

[HotRats]

Yeah, so my intent was to avoid an “Agoura is wrong because it doesn’t sound like Fractal” narrative as I really just wanted to observe the difference with matching parameter values and IR. I didn’t expect this big of a difference.

I do like both tones but I had to triple check both presets to make sure I didn’t somehow double apply an IR on the Stadium or leave a second cab active on the AM4.

Agoura almost sounds bandpass in comparison with what’s coming out of Fractal. Perhaps neither is accurate. Im still working on getting my physical reamping chain back together to compare against a real amp. Right now there’s no single source of truth which makes this a pretty useless endeavor.

you did the right thing because without a common point of reference we can't talk about accuracy.

BUT, and there's a big BUT here.
Why with same settings and IRs there there so much difference?
Why your clips are totally different while Karl's one where so close?

It doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I think @MirrorProfiles clips were more "different" sounding

 

[Mooselake]

Only just listening to these now, pretty drastic difference here, almost totally opposite (Fractal is much more scooped with huge lows and highs, Agoura much lighter on lows and highs which makes it sound more midrange focused).

I did some reamps of my Mark III, Fractal IIC+ and Agoura at similar settings and same IR. Perhaps Agoura could have been tweaked a bit more to get closer but the differences I notice with Agoura high gain sounds is basically exactly this:

Even I can hear some difference in that set. It's not as stark to my ear as it seems to be for some, but they all sound a little different from each other, and maybe C was a little more different from A and B than A and B are from each other. I suspect that if they were strung together end-to-end in a single clip I might be hard pressed to glean that they were from three different sources, especially in a mix, unless someone tipped me off that it was an A/B sort of thing. I'm not a high gain aficionado, but they all sound pretty cool to me.

 

[Mongillo19]

I think @MirrorProfiles clips were more "different" sounding

How dare you not mentioned how different the incorrectly gain staged comparisons I posted were.

 

[JiveTurkey]

How dare you not mentioned how different the incorrectly gain staged comparisons I posted were.

Must have been all the high-end loss I've experienced

 

[HotRats]

I think @MirrorProfiles clips were more "different" sounding

A, B & C they all sound different to each other with A & B being closer But it's not clear if settings are the same on all 3 clips or at least fractal and line6.

 

[JiveTurkey]

A, B & C they all sound different to each other with A & B being closer But it's not clear if settings are the same on all 3 clips or at least fractal and line6.

Either he is trying to trick us or C is Stadium AF.

 

[HotRats]

Either he is trying to trick us or C is Stadium AF.

I interpreted his sentence as if the Mark III, Fractal IIC+, and Agoura were A, B, and C in that order, and not a blind test.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I interpreted his sentence as if the Mark III, Fractal IIC+, and Agoura were A, B, and C in that order, and not a blind test.

I did too. But there is always the chance for a 'gotcha!' moment. I could also be experiencing confirmation bias as well.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

B is the Mark III (tbh that one sounds a bit more “amp like” to me in the low end). C is Line 6. Settings were matched 1:1 between Agoura and Fractal, although IMO the GEQ should have been dialled by ear as Cliff changes the tapers. Not really trying to draw any conclusions, especially with those tapers in mind.

Getting the III and Fractal model similar was quite straightforward, I didn’t really spend any time on that. Just set them up similarly and tweaked the eq a bit.

 

[JiveTurkey]

B is the Mark III (tbh that one sounds a bit more “amp like” to me in the low end). Settings were matched 1:1 between Agoura and Fractal, although IMO the GEQ should have been dialled by ear as Cliff changes the tapers. Not really trying to draw any conclusions, especially with those tapers in mind.

Getting the III and Fractal model similar was quite straightforward, I didn’t really spend any time on that. Just set them up similarly and tweaked the eq a bit.

I will say when playing loud over the weekend I noticed the presence control on the III is a LOT brighter compared to the presence controls on each channel of the V. I can see why Karl set it at .6 if the IIc+ is close to the III in that regard.

 

[Vicarious]

I'm glad you brought this up because mine was doing the same thing and I was wondering if it was normal. I just took a closer look and may have figured out the issue on mine. I had thought it only had a small amount of adjustability in either direction before it felt tight, but what was really happening is that there is a little bit of play and the locknut was moving as well. So, nothing was really being adjusted because I didn't want to force anything after I felt the wrench stop. The pedal seems to act as the wrench to hold the locknut still on the other side when you're turning the allen wrench. I actually grabbed the locknut from the side with an open ended 3/8" wrench to hold it still to help get it started, as it seems that it's pretty tight when they're shipping them out. I guess I didn't really understand or take a close enough look at how the adjustment was supposed to work.

Take a look at what's happening with the locknut when you try loosening it and see if that's the issue.

I'm kind of glad that someone else has the same issue.
It seems that the allen screw moves along with the lock nut for a little bit as I'm just starting adjusting the tension. This happens both when I'm screwing or unscrewing the allen screw. Thus the the 'play'.
Did you fix it by holding the locknut still with the wrench while screwing the allen screw?

 

[Chocol8]

I will say when playing loud over the weekend I noticed the presence control on the III is a LOT brighter compared to the presence controls on each channel of the V. I can see why Karl set it at .6 if the IIc+ is close to the III in that regard.

Wait, does this mean you aren’t a deaf old man after all?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I will say when playing loud over the weekend I noticed the presence control on the III is a LOT brighter compared to the presence controls on each channel of the V. I can see why Karl set it at .6 if the IIc+ is close to the III in that regard.

I think the presence circuit varied a bit between the different revisions of III. I usually run mine around 3-4, unless I want the tighter metallica thing (in which case I run it lower and crank the GEQ more). I like it a bit more loose

 

[JiveTurkey]

Wait, does this mean you aren’t a deaf old man after all?

 

[HotRats]

B is the Mark III (tbh that one sounds a bit more “amp like” to me in the low end). C is Line 6. Settings were matched 1:1 between Agoura and Fractal, although IMO the GEQ should have been dialled by ear as Cliff changes the tapers. Not really trying to draw any conclusions, especially with those tapers in mind.

Getting the III and Fractal model similar was quite straightforward, I didn’t really spend any time on that. Just set them up similarly and tweaked the eq a bit.

why don't you make a clip with the GEQ set flat?

 

[ccc118]

I'm kind of glad that someone else has the same issue.
It seems that the allen screw moves along with the lock nut for a little bit as I'm just starting adjusting the tension. This happens both when I'm screwing or unscrewing the allen screw. Thus the the 'play'.
Did you fix it by holding the locknut still with the wrench while screwing the allen screw?

Yes, that's exactly what I did. I chose to use a wrench to hold it from the side just because I didn't like how much play there was, but you should be able to just rely on the notch in the pedal to act as the "wrench" to hold it still. I think I was just being overly cautious. It seems that originally I thought I was adjusting it, but it was just the fact that there is a little play and I wasn't really loosening it.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I think the presence circuit varied a bit between the different revisions of III. I usually run mine around 3-4, unless I want the tighter metallica thing (in which case I run it lower and crank the GEQ more). I like it a bit more loose

View attachment 57425

I backed it off to zero then pulled it up to juuuuuuuuuuust where I could hear (and feel ) that 'sheen' start to take over. It's definitely a touchy control but the raw power and simplicity of that amp (while still being super flexible) is something to behold

 

[Mongillo19]

why don't you make a clip with the GEQ set flat?