Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[MIJLOVER]

I had some fun with the Super Reverb, both the HX and Stadium. I'll keep my opinions and conclusions to myself for now.

Here's a simple A/B test of the models at identical settings. We're using the Vibrato channel on the Stadium and the Vibrato model of the Legacy amp. Only loaded the two amp models in Stadium and the Super's dual cab with two 57's. I've set the impedance to fixed 1M and turned the noise gate off. I kept the signal bone dry.

I've then matched through a VU meter in Logic to hit around -10, but of course, it differs from clip to clip because of playing dynamics.

There are six different clips, but the order is not guaranteed. Could be A-B or B-A for every single one (to prevent coin-flipping success.)


Stadium vs OG Helix Super Reverb - A/B test


I've re-amped a version with the bright switch engaged (and adjusted the EQ a bit too - but they remain identical). I'll share after the weekend if anyone cares.

I also intended to compare some of the higher gain models, maybe the Rev og Diezel, but ran out of time.

Let me know what you think

Edit: The file is a 24-bit wave file. It might take some time to load if you press play in the Drive folder. So be patient, or download it instead to make it easier.

I know people have had enough of A/B testing, but I actually found it quite interesting

Here's the same Super Reverb with the Bright switch engaged and the other settings tweaked - but still identical between the two models, with the only exception being I don't know how Z PrePost vs Bias / Bias X would be matched.

Stadium vs OG Super Reverb - Bright Switch

The A/B order is the same as with the first test.

I guess the last test would be to tweak them to sound similar instead of keeping the settings the same. But I'm done testing for now.

See below for spoilers!


The A/B order revealed:
The order is A B B A B A B A A B A B


Comments about my experience:

I find that with the Bright switch engaged, the differences are more pronounced. I prefer playing through the Stadium model, but there's no question that the Stadium model is less bright at the same settings, or it could be the more authoritative midrange that's making it seem less bright. I think it's both. I didn't expect the models to sound the same at the same settings, but it was cool testing how they differ


The actual reveal:
A = Stadium B = OG Helix

 

[FuzzyAce]

I know people have had enough of A/B testing, but I actually found it quite interesting

Here's the same Super Reverb with the Bright switch engaged and the other settings tweaked - but still identical between the two models, with the only exception being I don't know how Z PrePost vs Bias / Bias X would be matched.

Stadium vs OG Super Reverb - Bright Switch

The A/B order is the same as with the first test.

I guess the last test would be to tweak them to sound similar instead of keeping the settings the same. But I'm done testing for now.

See below for spoilers!


The A/B order revealed:
The order is A B B A B A B A A B A B


Comments about my experience:

I find that with the Bright switch engaged, the differences are more pronounced. I prefer playing through the Stadium model, but there's no question that the Stadium model is less bright at the same settings, or it could be the more authoritative midrange that's making it seem less bright. I think it's both. I didn't expect the models to sound the same at the same settings, but it was cool testing how they differ


The actual reveal:
A = Stadium B = OG Helix

Clip isn't working for me? Can't hear anything

 

[EOengineer]

There's not a signature or notable Mark IIC+ tone I'm unable to get with the Stadium Mark IIC+, and I just use the typical Mark way of dialing for all of my gain sounds (bass super low, mids kinda there and treble up quite high - graphic EQ scooped to taste).

Yeah I feel like L6 has done a respectable job of representing the full functionality of the amp with the pull switches and everything. If I'm dialing in tones in isolation, I feel pretty good about it. It gets weird fast when you start comparing to Hx or Fractal. At some point I need to compare Stadium with IK's model in the Mesa 2 bundle just to add another point of comparison in the modeling realm. Ultimately what's going to tell the full story for me is a solid comparison against my Studio Preamp -> Mark III Power amp > 1960 when I get the house clear enough to track the sample with that amp's master that high. Neighbors be damned.

As a counterpoint to your comparison, when the Mark IIC+ first dropped, I used a "5-Minute Tones" Leon Todd video where he dials in the Mark IIC+ model and then used the same settings on Agoura with his signature IR.

Sounded waaaaaaaaaaaaay closer than this particular A/B.

Yeah there are some of us that are getting pretty significant differences, and others that have produced clips with smaller differences. Not sure why. I know in my case I had the amps treble shift off and both bright switches engaged, which is different than some of the other clips have been dialed in. I was intentionally trying to push the top. The differences in the 5 band tapers could explain parts of this but I don't think all of it. I've wondered if there is a bug with SIC getting double applied when using impulse responses. In comparison to everything else that's sort of the vibe I get from Agoura....like I applied a speaker sim to a speaker sim but more subtle - again...this is just in comparison with the other modeling options I have laying around....which I guess is pretty much everything at this point (L6, Fractal, Tonex, Amplitube, etc).

 

[MIJLOVER]

Clip isn't working for me? Can't hear anything

It normally takes a while before it starts playing (it’s a 24 bit wave file) but I can try to embed it with SoundCloud instead (won’t be a wave file, though I think?) alternatively, maybe downloading works best? I’ll test again, but it should work

 

[Sascha Franck]

Clip isn't working for me? Can't hear anything

Peaks at around -30dB, so it's very low in volume (remember to turn the volume down when you switch back to whatever adult website...).

 

[sashimi]

Peaks at around -30dB, so it's very low in volume (remember to turn the volume down when you switch back to whatever adult website...).

If only you warned me 10 minutes sooner, I am on my way to talk to HR now.

 

[MIJLOVER]

Yeah I feel like L6 has done a respectable job of representing the full functionality of the amp with the pull switches and everything. If I'm dialing in tones in isolation, I feel pretty good about it. It gets weird fast when you start comparing to Hx or Fractal. At some point I need to compare Stadium with IK's model in the Mesa 2 bundle just to add another point of comparison in the modeling realm. Ultimately what's going to tell the full story for me is a solid comparison against my Studio Preamp -> Mark III Power amp > 1960 when I get the house clear enough to track the sample with that amp's master that high. Neighbors be damned.


Yeah there are some of us that are getting pretty significant differences, and others that have produced clips with smaller differences. Not sure why. I know in my case I had the amps treble shift off and both bright switches engaged, which is different than some of the other clips have been dialed in. I was intentionally trying to push the top. The differences in the 5 band tapers could explain parts of this but I don't think all of it. I've wondered if there is a bug with SIC getting double applied when using impulse responses. In comparison to everything else that's sort of the vibe I get from Agoura....like I applied a speaker sim to a speaker sim but more subtle - again...this is just in comparison with the other modeling options I have laying around....which I guess is pretty much everything at this point (L6, Fractal, Tonex, Amplitube, etc).

Just loaded up a preset I’ve made with this amp at what I call creamy break up - it incredible touch sensitive.

I remember the feeling the Trainwreck in Helix gave me, but it had that weird decay going on. The 2C+ is even more dynamic and it sounds better.

I can see using this amp for way more things than expected. I kinda want the actual amp now lol

 

[MIJLOVER]

@Sascha Franck
Sorry
I was aiming for ~-10 on the peaks to keep it safe since the clean transients are so spikey. Maybe something happened in the export afterwards.

I wanted to err on the side of caution, but I could gain it up if it’s better.

 

[EOengineer]

Just loaded up a preset I’ve made with this amp at what I call creamy break up - it incredible touch sensitive.

I remember the feeling the Trainwreck in Helix gave me, but it had that weird decay going on. The 2C+ is even more dynamic and it sounds better.

I can see using this amp for way more things than expected. I kinda want the actual amp now lol

The 2C+ is an incredible amp capable of so much more than what it’s famous for. Luckily the reissues are pretty good, readily available, and seemingly slowly falling in price.

 

[JiveTurkey]

The 2C+ is an incredible amp capable of so much more than what it’s famous for. Luckily the reissues are pretty good, readily available, and seemingly slowly falling in price.

The wicker HRG reissues look

 

[EOengineer]

The wicker HRG reissues look

I lived in Florida too long. My wife puts up with a lot, but reintroducing wicker into our life might be a bridge too far.

 

[HotRats]

The 2C+ is an incredible amp capable of so much more than what it’s famous for. Luckily the reissues are pretty good, readily available, and seemingly slowly falling in price.

They only cost 4k € here in Europe.

 

[GTR37]

Hi all,

I received my stadium XL at last Friday, and I've put over 20 hours in it. I am also a helix and hx stomp owner, I never Had a fractal device in order to make a comparison, I do own a tonex pedal, and a boss katana gen 3 head among other stuff. I am mainly a high gain / modern metal / chugs all day kind of player.

I'll write some of my thoughts on the device:

Stadium modeling is something that you 're gonna have to get used to I suppose. This reminded me of when I first got my hx stomp, I could not a get usable sound out of it. After watching a lot of videos and tweaking I did found some ways to dial in some heavy sounds that were awesome to hear and felt good. One year after, I bought a helix and transferred my hx-stomp tones to it and I thought that they felt even better than in the hx-stomp. But maybe I got used to hx modeling in the way,
I feel the same way with stadium. The sound and feel is different than in the helix, even if you transfer the same patches from OG helix.
I found myself hating some presets I transferred from my OG helix, but those presets where my favorite in the helix.
This does not apply to every preset I transferred, but they all feel a little different.

There is a difference in the sound and feeling in the Mids. There is some honkiness -a cocked wah felling- and also a lack of pick attack - a lack of overall tightness, compared to hx.

I could not get a great sound out of panamas (yet) but I did From revv gen purple. I love Mark IIC+. I think its my favorite amp along with Revv Purple. Mark IIC+ has a great clean channel, but there is a pop sound when changing from clean to lead which I don't like at all.

There is a small (but perceivable) delay when changing snapshots. Also when changing from a clean amp to a high gain amp there is a volume jump, or a hiccup, a sound glitch. And this did not happened in the OG helix. I am comparing the same preset in both units.
I found a way to reduce this, by changing from clean to dirt by putting amp A to path 1A and amp B to path 2A and using a split a/b which is controlled by snapshots to change between the 2 amps.

I am looking for a way to see all assignments in the desktop app.

I found myself working with the app 99% of the time. I didn't have any disconnections but did run into syncing problems. i.e. the amp or effect in helix was on but showed off in the app.

Snapshot toggle (return to previous snapshot) does not work when you are in 'command center' mode.

Tranferring IR's Songs and Favorites via wi-fi and organizing them in folders is cool.

I have encountered many bugs so far, and restarted the device way too many times. I think I found a bug where the device stops outputing any sound when you import presets that utilize the last og hx amps, clarity oblivion etc or the moon cabs.


The concern I have now, is the expression pedal. It's a little difficult to describe it in english but I'll try. After 3 days of very little use, the exp started having a 'play'.
This means that when I move the pedal to toe down position from 0% it moves easily for 20% then 'locks' and gets stiffer for the remaining 80%.
The same when moving it heel down from 100% to zero. I think the internal nut of the pedal got a little loose so there is a little 'play' of about 20% at the start of the movement.
I did opened OG helix once to apply some grease to it's expression pedal that got squeaky after 3 years of use, but to open a 2.4k € device after 3 days? I mean come on now line 6..

Does anyone experienced something like this? Do you think I should open it and fix it or return it and get a replacement? I mean in order to return it I need to send it to another country, and maybe the replacement will have the same problem after all.

To be honest this has some not so good things
Snapshots and volume spikes are not helpful when presets has such a gap

Also I am somewhat concerned about the smeared pick attack and low end flub , in addition to the over accentuated cocked wah mids
I guess I will not know till I actually try it but this and the observations from others like mirror profiles , Orvillian and deadpan make the wait to February on floor a little more comfortable to see what’s happens

 

[FuzzyAce]

@Sascha Franck
Sorry
I was aiming for ~-10 on the peaks to keep it safe since the clean transients are so spikey. Maybe something happened in the export afterwards.

I wanted to err on the side of caution, but I could gain it up if it’s better.

You may want to boost it a bit more.
I have my MacPro all the way up and it's right at casual (very casual) listening level!

 

[Deadpan]

To be honest this has some not so good things
Snapshots and volume spikes are not helpful when presets has such a gap

Also I am somewhat concerned about the smeared pick attack and low end flub , in addition to the over accentuated cocked wah mids
I guess I will not know till I actually try it but this and the observations from others like mirror profiles , Orvillian and deadpan make the wait to February on floor a little more comfortable to see what’s happens

The Stadium does sound and feel great. There are bugs. Maybe this is one or not.

I am 100% confident that it will be a leader.

 

[EOengineer]

Just loaded up a preset I’ve made with this amp at what I call creamy break up - it incredible touch sensitive.

I remember the feeling the Trainwreck in Helix gave me, but it had that weird decay going on. The 2C+ is even more dynamic and it sounds better.

I can see using this amp for way more things than expected. I kinda want the actual amp now lol

Going back to this - what are you using guitar-wise, and how are you setting the amp up?

I’m a sucker for single coil Strat/Tele tones with the bass shift engaged. You can either push the drive on the clean channel or dial the drive back on the lead channel and work your volume knob to move between fender on steroids and more driven tones.

 

[MIJLOVER]

Going back to this - what are you using guitar-wise, and how are you setting the amp up?

I’m a sucker for single coil Strat/Tele tones with the bass shift engaged. You can either push the drive on the clean channel or dial the drive back on the lead channel and work your volume knob to move between fender on steroids and more driven tones.

I’m either using my HSS guitar (Thornbucker in the bridge, so not too overpowering) or as in this case my Revstar with P90’s.

Both channels have awesome sounds. This time I was on the lead channel with the drive dialed back and messing with the volumen and tone knob / pickups selector on the Rev.

I thought it would be far less useful to me than the Super or the Jubilee, but it’s a fantastic addition to the lineup, imo.

 

[Vicarious]

To be honest this has some not so good things
Snapshots and volume spikes are not helpful when presets has such a gap

Also I am somewhat concerned about the smeared pick attack and low end flub , in addition to the over accentuated cocked wah mids
I guess I will not know till I actually try it but this and the observations from others like mirror profiles , Orvillian and deadpan make the wait to February on floor a little more comfortable to see what’s happens

Preset switching is not that bad to be honest. There is gap, for sure but in my case it is as long as the OG Helix when switching presets from the app at least. Maybe when Agoura models are present in two presets, while switching between those is bigger? I'll test and report. But switching between hx models is as it was with OG Helix.

But I think that stadium has a lot more of horse power that you could play any song within one preset.

Another concern is that the poly capo and poly pitch seems worse in stadium than in og helix? Both in terms of tone and artifacts especially in low latency settings. There's actually a factory preset that lets you drop the tune, i think its called rhythm concepts. Anything below -1 in that preset is unusable in my opinion.

I think I'm returning mine and will be getting a normal stadium. I'm having a hardware issue with the expression pedal, and stadium floor seems that I will have fewer things to worry about failing in the future. I don't really need 2 instrument inputs or 4 effects loop. I love scribble strips and onboard expression, but that's something I will have to make a compromise.

 

[Vicarious]

The Stadium does sound and feel great. There are bugs. Maybe this is one or not.

I am 100% confident that it will be a leader.

This is subjective.
It definitely feels different. For me it feels more organic than the og helix, more dynamic for sure. Less compressed and less digital feeling.

I found that messing with the input settings makes a lot of difference in feel. I prefer to have the input set to 230k or 1mohm and turn off the input gate. Then using an input gate in the effects chain. This affects a lot the pick attack.

 

[Melodioso]

This is subjective.
It definitely feels different. For me it feels more organic than the og helix, more dynamic for sure. Less compressed and less digital feeling.

I found that messing with the input settings makes a lot of difference in feel. I prefer to have the input set to 230k or 1mohm and turn off the input gate. Then using an input gate in the effects chain. This affects a lot the pick attack.

Is the sound difference also maybe more pronounced if you use the full chain (preamp + amp + cab) into studio monitors than using it with a tube power amp and a cab (and disabling cab sim) ?

I made a simple patch with the "old" Mark IV and the new IIC+ (both are the amp models) to switch back and forth, and actually prefer the feel and the sound of the Mark IV. Of course they are different amps with different characters, but I thought that the Agoura modeling of the IIC+ would make it a no brainer. That's not the case