Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Richard_G]

Caring about authenticity and accuracy in amp modeling does not mean that one cannot also care about improvements and innovations in other aspects of products or gear.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Isn't the XY controller a similar idea?

It could be. Flux essentially allowed you to ramp between settings with one button press so you could essentially use expression pedal style stuff without an expression pedal.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Isn't the XY controller a similar idea?

Come to think of it, maybe. Can you assign any axis to a single footswitch and define a "ramp" parameter?

 

[ian_dissonance]

Caring about authenticity and accuracy in amp modeling does not mean that one cannot also care about improvements and innovations in other aspects of products or gear.

I definitely think Line 6 thinks about the whole picture. Accuracy and “how do sound like (insert dead guitarist here)?” tend to dominate discussions, though.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Caring about authenticity and accuracy in amp modeling does not mean that one cannot also care about improvements and innovations in other aspects of products or gear.

Nobody's saying that. But people are almost obsessive about authentic amp performance in this thread - and there's very little discussion about other sound aspects.

 

[Mooselake]

Very defenitely. Typically, they're not even interested in "the other" famous sounds. You will barely ever find someone asking for, say, Robert Fripp's and Adrian Belew's sounds on King Crimson's "Discipline" - even if that's a production pretty famous for wicked guitar sounds.

I had to pause reading the thread to go listen to Thela Hun Ginjeet. Haven't thought of that record in a long, long time.

 

[MIJLOVER]

What we however don't see is *any* other improvements on the sound shaping side of things. There's not one single new drive model, not one single new compressor, filter, pitch, modulation, delay, reverb or whatever models. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
In all of these categories, there's some pretty great, some good, some not so good and some pretty bad models - but I guess we can agree that there's room for improvement.

Yes, definitely room for more quality effects. But I do think it’s worth pointed out that effects developed while Stadium was under development were released to the OG Helix - because the architecture could do it.

Line 6 could’ve kept those back and saved it for Stadium, and from a marketing standpoint, that would probably have served them well.

But, yeah I do expect them to continue releasing high quality effects and improving QoL features!

 

[HotRats]

Time for some real talk. Or whatever.

Let's see what we have here. Some very vocal folks getting all in on amp accuracy. Fine.
But, as mentioned before: How comes this is pretty much the only thing that seems to be relevant, ending up in endless discussions, A/B comparisons and what not?
Last time I checked among folks I know (as in folks actually playing some music in one way or the other), there's been a truckload of things pretty much as important (or maybe even more important) than that last ounce of authenticity.

And no, for now I'm not going to talk about global blocks, modifiers, not bright enough LEDs or anything related to UI stuff. It'll be just about the audio side of things.

So, we have a brand new flagship guitar modeling and MFX processor from Line 6, featuring kinda noticeably improved amp modeling (which seems to be a general consensus).
What we however don't see is *any* other improvements on the sound shaping side of things. There's not one single new drive model, not one single new compressor, filter, pitch, modulation, delay, reverb or whatever models. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
In all of these categories, there's some pretty great, some good, some not so good and some pretty bad models - but I guess we can agree that there's room for improvement.

Now, on a brand new flagship unit, I actually do expect something to impress me with all of those, too.
Authentic amp sounds are all fine and dandy, but the true fun when building patches for me always comes from combining all elements. In most player's real playing life combining these things is actually a must. A truckload of typical guitar sounds aren't just plain dry amp sounds. Very often they're at least a combination of a drive pedal and an amp for the core sound plus some other stuff to spice things up or provide "sonic interest". And the most authentic amp sounds aren't worth anything in case the dirt pedal I add on the frontend isn't doing a great job. Or in case the rotary effect I might want to add sounds like a broken toy.

And as said, I want to be impressed, too. We could, say, talk delays. Sure, there's some fine delays in L6's portfolio - but let's have a look at the plugin world. We don't even need to look at parameter monsters such as UVI's Relayer or U-He's MFM2, no, just looking at Valhalla's Supermassive or Sixth Sample's Deelay is sufficient. They're both doing things the L6 delays could only dream of. And they're *super* inspiring to fool around with. Or look at modulations and, say, Valhalla's Space Modulator. Just incredible. We could as well proceed to reverbs. Check out NI's Raum and see how easy it is to get a whole plethora of very interesting (and usable) sounds out of it. And fwiw, all the mentioned plugins are freeware.
Needless to say, the same goes for pretty much any FX category.
And then there's that new flagship unit offering, well, nothing new at all.

I can't speak for others (well, partially I can, in case I know those folks), and all too apparently round these parts it's a lot more important to get all anal about one or the other dB in the trebly range, but for me these things are vastly more important to keep the fun going. Plus, they're absolutely relevant for whatever gigs I need to play. Much more relevant than the singlemost authentic JP-2C.

I 100% agree.

Then each of us have different needs and I'm personally much more interested in how a multifx can be customized, can control things and let you taylor it for your needs.
I'm much more interested in switching options than new amps given that the amps I eventually use live (2203 mostly) are already more than good enough in the OG Helix.

I prefer 4cm to full digital and I've never used lots of fxs live but I was expecting line 6 to push on the FX side too and not only amps.

I'm sure they'll do that in the future.

I understand that amp models and UI sell the unit more than anything else.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But I do think it’s worth pointed out that effects developed while Stadium was under development were released to the OG Helix - because the architecture could do it.

Maybe. But given whatever nowadays "standards" might be, I don't find most of them to be particularly great anyway.

 

[EOengineer]

Caring about authenticity and accuracy in amp modeling does not mean that one cannot also care about improvements and innovations in other aspects of products or gear.

Yup. We can walk and chew gum. Everyone has their areas of interest, and several of us here share a fascination with measuring and comparing the accuracy of the latest technologies. This isn’t a new thing. It’s been going on since modeling claimed to replicate a room full of vintage gear.

I’d understand getting a bit raw if people who didn’t own the hardware were in here ripping on L6, shitting on the platform, etc. That’s not what I see happening in this thread though. I see a subset of people passionate about accuracy, who have invested in Stadium, own some of the circuits L6 modeled, and are starting to produce some data. None of this is aimed negatively at L6. It’s not a witch hunt to prove them wrong or whatever. We just want to understand how Agoura is behaving because it’s fascinating.

The folks who aren’t as interested in accuracy can continue to not care about accuracy.

 

[ejecta]

Aside from a few special features you and I tend to look for one thing that kind of stopped me from being interested in stadium right now was that as far as sounds go, amp accuracy or feel seemed to be the only concerns. I was kind of hoping they’d lean more into the “originals” end of things for amps and drives and EQs and general sound shaping stuff.
Also, I would LOVE Raum in my floorboard. Such an easy, fun reverb/delay. Im obviously quite interested in a Stadium development, but right now the “be everything” direction means I don’t really have anything in there I want or need. Showcase is cool, but only for me if I had it 10 years ago before I built out my live tracks/in-ears setups and backups. X/Y is cool but if I have to manually do it, it’s much less useful. “Better” amp modeling is cool, but I don’t care about digital amp collecting or having a ton of switchable channels in one amp model. A thing to like about digital for me is NOT having the same clean channel and dirty channel I’d have if I bought an amp. All cool features that don’t move the needle for me as far as moving gear around to buy one.

Quoting you really only for this discussion topic and not to pick on you but the Stadium was released a bit early and as a person who bought in early I knew there would be bugs and I didn’t even expect much new in the way of sound shaping models like drives, amps, effects etc. Not sure why this is shocking to some but here we are. If you don’t want to wait or deal with bugs I’d not buy one right now. There’s a big reason I still have another modeler and this is it. I knew what I was buying into. Once these things get sorted and bugs get squashed and new models come on board I’ll move my other modeler on.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Yup. We can walk and chew gum. Everyone has their areas of interest, and several of us here share a fascination with measuring and comparing the accuracy of the latest technologies. This isn’t a new thing. It’s been going on since modeling claimed to replicate a room full of vintage gear.

I’d understand getting a bit raw if people who didn’t own the hardware were in here ripping on L6, shitting on the platform, etc. That’s not what I see happening in this thread though. I see a subset of people passionate about accuracy, who have invested in Stadium, own some of the circuits L6 modeled, and are starting to produce some data. None of this is aimed negatively at L6. It’s not a witch hunt to prove them wrong or whatever. We just want to understand how Agoura is behaving because it’s fascinating.

The folks who aren’t as interested in accuracy can continue to not care about accuracy.

It does make for a boring-ass read when you don’t care about accuracy, though. Cool, we’re 98% there to tubes, but I want to hit one button and make it sound like everyone is getting sucked through a black hole. Accuracy really doesn’t mean anything for that, lol.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Quoting you really only for this discussion topic and not to pick on you but the Stadium was released a bit early and as a person who bought in early I knew there would be bugs and I didn’t even expect much new in the way of sound shaping models like drives, amps, effects etc. Not sure why this is shocking to some but here we are. If you don’t want to wait or deal with bugs I’d not buy one right now. There’s a big reason I still have another modeler and this is it. I knew what I was buying into. Once these things get sorted and bugs get squashed and new models come on board I’ll move my other modeler on.

For sure, that’s why I haven’t even been on the fence about buying one. And honestly I’m surprised by some of the bugs and “features” even though it is early. Just the idea of a login nag screen already puts me off, lol.

 

[EOengineer]

It does make for a boring-ass read when you don’t care about accuracy, though.

 

[DanRad]

Come to think of it, maybe. Can you assign any axis to a single footswitch and define a "ramp" parameter?

Not that I've been able to figure out. But I'm hoping more mapping and controls will be coming in a later update. Otherwise, I don't think it's a feature I'll ever use live. I just can't see myself bending over mid-performance and tapping a touchscreen.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Not that I've been able to figure out. But I'm hoping more mapping and controls will be coming in a later update. Otherwise, I don't think it's a feature I'll ever use live. I just can't see myself bending over mid-performance and tapping a touchscreen.

Hopefully you’d be able to at least assign the min/max points to the expression pedal and choose a curve. Ideally a bunch of points in series with adjust curves between each.

 

[Gary_W]

Oooh, I 'membah!


Beautiful story to start the year. So glad the surgery went that good :)

Happy 2026 everyone! Looking forward to joining the Stadium bunch when the non-XL is released

Me too and thank you:)

Time for some real talk. Or whatever.

Let's see what we have here. Some very vocal folks getting all in on amp accuracy. Fine.
But, as mentioned before: How comes this is pretty much the only thing that seems to be relevant, ending up in endless discussions, A/B comparisons and what not?
Last time I checked among folks I know (as in folks actually playing some music in one way or the other), there's been a truckload of things pretty much as important (or maybe even more important) than that last ounce of authenticity.

And no, for now I'm not going to talk about global blocks, modifiers, not bright enough LEDs or anything related to UI stuff. It'll be just about the audio side of things.

So, we have a brand new flagship guitar modeling and MFX processor from Line 6, featuring kinda noticeably improved amp modeling (which seems to be a general consensus).
What we however don't see is *any* other improvements on the sound shaping side of things. There's not one single new drive model, not one single new compressor, filter, pitch, modulation, delay, reverb or whatever models. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
In all of these categories, there's some pretty great, some good, some not so good and some pretty bad models - but I guess we can agree that there's room for improvement.

Now, on a brand new flagship unit, I actually do expect something to impress me with all of those, too.
Authentic amp sounds are all fine and dandy, but the true fun when building patches for me always comes from combining all elements. In most player's real playing life combining these things is actually a must. A truckload of typical guitar sounds aren't just plain dry amp sounds. Very often they're at least a combination of a drive pedal and an amp for the core sound plus some other stuff to spice things up or provide "sonic interest". And the most authentic amp sounds aren't worth anything in case the dirt pedal I add on the frontend isn't doing a great job. Or in case the rotary effect I might want to add sounds like a broken toy.

And as said, I want to be impressed, too. We could, say, talk delays. Sure, there's some fine delays in L6's portfolio - but let's have a look at the plugin world. We don't even need to look at parameter monsters such as UVI's Relayer or U-He's MFM2, no, just looking at Valhalla's Supermassive or Sixth Sample's Deelay is sufficient. They're both doing things the L6 delays could only dream of. And they're *super* inspiring to fool around with. Or look at modulations and, say, Valhalla's Space Modulator. Just incredible. We could as well proceed to reverbs. Check out NI's Raum and see how easy it is to get a whole plethora of very interesting (and usable) sounds out of it. And fwiw, all the mentioned plugins are freeware.
Needless to say, the same goes for pretty much any FX category.
And then there's that new flagship unit offering, well, nothing new at all.

I can't speak for others (well, partially I can, in case I know those folks), and all too apparently round these parts it's a lot more important to get all anal about one or the other dB in the trebly range, but for me these things are vastly more important to keep the fun going. Plus, they're absolutely relevant for whatever gigs I need to play. Much more relevant than the singlemost authentic JP-2C.

I think they’re kind of damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

I’m very happy with my Stadium so far - for my ears it beats the core tones (and workflow) on the Kemper I enjoyed for years but I think the verbs and delays were better on the Kemper. Not to the extent that I’m regretting my choice - there’s still some excellent sounds to be had here imo. Reason I mention Kemper’s approach is because the didn’t specifically model anything - they just made really good open ended reverbs, delays and (at a later update) fuzz / dirt pedals. I think they did a great job with these but they did catch stick for them from some folks because they were not pretending to be something else. And we’re clearly all fond of something pretending to be something else.

Although folks in the know gladly go for Valhalla reverbs (awesome anyway and, when you consider the price, really off the charts awesome), a lot of people who vote with their wallets would rather go with a Lexicon recreation. And ultimately there’s always the curiosity factor - you might never have owned a Deluxe Memory Man so ‘knowing’ how it sounds via a digital recreation is (to many people’s brains) more satisfying than creating something cool out of a more flexible plug-in with on guidance / no limits!

So (from a marketing point of view) a recreation of something that is perceived as awesome seems to beat an original model in terms of sex appeal every time. Which is a shame as the things that aren’t trying to be authentic can hold some real magic IMO. Forgive me, I don’t remember but there’s one member here who refuses to use any of the line 6 originals which I think is a pity - there’s lots of fun to be had there which I’m sure he’ll find if he dabbles.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Me too and thank you:)



I think they’re kind of damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

I’m very happy with my Stadium so far - for my ears it beats the core tones (and workflow) on the Kemper I enjoyed for years but I think the verbs and delays were better on the Kemper. Not to the extent that I’m regretting my choice - there’s still some excellent sounds to be had here imo. Reason I mention Kemper’s approach is because the didn’t specifically model anything - they just made really good open ended reverbs, delays and (at a later update) fuzz / dirt pedals. I think they did a great job with these but they did catch stick for them from some folks because they were not pretending to be something else. And we’re clearly all fond of something pretending to be something else.

Although folks in the know gladly go for Valhalla reverbs (awesome anyway and, when you consider the price, really off the charts awesome), a lot of people who vote with their wallets would rather go with a Lexicon recreation. And ultimately there’s always the curiosity factor - you might never have owned a Deluxe Memory Man so ‘knowing’ how it sounds via a digital recreation is (to many people’s brains) more satisfying than creating something cool out of a more flexible plug-in with on guidance / no limits!

So (from a marketing point of view) a recreation of something that is perceived as awesome seems to beat an original model in terms of sex appeal every time. Which is a shame as the things that aren’t trying to be authentic can hold some real magic IMO. Forgive me, I don’t remember but there’s one member here who refuses to use any of the line 6 originals which I think is a pity - there’s lots of fun to be had there which I’m sure he’ll find if he dabbles.

Yeah, I think it’s the same guy that can’t hear anything over 5khz so he likes his tones sizzling and buzzy.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I feel seen.

 

[Gary_W]

I feel seen.

Apologies :) I was a believer when I tried the Elmsley. I’m not a massive fan but the negative feedback dial thing it does seems to go vaguely in the direction of one of the only valve amps I’ve got (that has a bonkers negative feedback thing on it that just pokes the hornets nest of an already angry amp). I hadn’t found another model / profile / whatever that did that. It’s still not the same but it (and the Kemper ‘let’s make a reverb that does everything’ approach) persuaded me that it’s not always a bad idea