Kemper Profiler MK 2

[BenIfin]

..... and I will add that I am feeling more positive about have grabbed a Player a few weeks ago to try this new 2.0 stuff first hand when it comes out.

 

[Jarick]

I think it is a bit of a stretch to call liquid profiling component modeling. It's applying different tone stack behaviors, but have they said it's actually modeling the tone stack at a component level and also the interaction with the different pre-amp stages before and after at a component level? I would be absolutely shocked if it was component modeling for a number of reasons.

I’ve never heard it called component modeling either. I always thought it was as you described as well, it makes the eq act more like the real amp tone stack at least in frequency settings and makes the gain control more realistic by modeling bright cap behavior. I thought it’s basically all eq but does work very well.

The idea with liquid profiles is to capture an amp dialed in really well at the most gain you’d want, mark the eq and gain knobs from the amp on Kemper so it k owe the starting point, and then it can do the eq thing when you turn the knobs. It’s really effective imo.

 

[BenIfin]

...It’s really effective imo.

Very, very effective .... as long as you use one of the Kemper 30 or so "modelled" Amp Gain and EQ stacks.

Even with the MK1 LP Profiling, a well done LP is a dream to tweak .... it sounds and feels just like adjusting the controls on "a" real tube Amp.

I'm hoping / expecting :) MK2 2.0 + LP's will up this even more.

 

[Orvillain]

I may be totally out of my understanding here, but for Tonex or NAM would not, say, 1024 different knob captures, take at least something like ~90 <-> 120 hours of just individual capturing time before even doing the interpolation ? ... that's like around 8 hours a day for 12 <-> 15 days of just capturing ..... anyone that did that would go insane

So to extrapolate ..... if you have a basic Amp with just 6 x knobs ie: G / B / M / T / P / MV .... to get roughly 1024 capture points across 6 differnet interacting knobs, each knob can only be captured at just over 3 [ 3.2 ] distinct settings .... so that leaves an awful lot of very large "gaps" for the interpolation to be right and accurate in "filling in" ?)

Again, my apologies up front if my math's is fucked up.

Enter, TINA.

 

[[Nathan]]

I may be totally out of my understanding here, but for Tonex or NAM would not, say, 1024 different knob captures, take at least something like ~90 <-> 120 hours of just individual capturing time before even doing the interpolation ? ... that's like around 8 hours a day for 12 <-> 15 days of just capturing ..... anyone that did that would go insane

So to extrapolate ..... if you have a basic Amp with just 6 x knobs ie: G / B / M / T / P / MV .... to get roughly 1024 capture points across 6 differnet interacting knobs, each knob can only be captured at just over 3 [ 3.2 ] distinct settings .... so that leaves an awful lot of very large "gaps" for the interpolation to be right and accurate in "filling in" ?)

Again, my apologies up front if my math's is fucked up.

As mentioned #Tina. There's been robotics attached to hardware units in other applications (access analog, other services like that).
Either way look how "quickly" the big boy companies take to bring out new modelled amps, it would be generous to give them 2 months a pop. So even at the worst end of the spectrum with 12-15 days, its very doable.

I think you'd also be surprised how far some of these software solutions stretch the interpolation. You might look at a popular Guitar Cab suite where you can move the mic around to find your favourite sweet spot, but under the hood there might only be 9 IR captures there. So between automation of amp capturing + interpolation methods it can actually be a pretty fast method to pump out models. Of course you'd expect the more established brands to have more detailed than some of the lesser tier ones, it's upto the reputation of the company to do what they see as best.

I'm sure there's way more involved to all this and there's roadblocks that take time that we can't even imagine cause we dont do it. But just pure capturing alone wouldn't be that bad.

 

[Chocol8]

An automated system could figure out how many captures it needs to make an accurate model. Very few amps would need 1000+, especially since the interpolation doesn’t have to be linear.

That said, it’s all pretty unnecessary unless accuracy trumps tone and usability. The only advantage to tone controls working like they do on a real vintage circuit is because we are used to that. Those tone stacks actually suck and are very limited.

 

[2dor]

An automated system could figure out how many captures it needs to make an accurate model. Very few amps would need 1000+, especially since the interpolation doesn’t have to be linear.

That said, it’s all pretty unnecessary unless accuracy trumps tone and usability. The only advantage to tone controls working like they do on a real vintage circuit is because we are used to that. Those tone stacks actually suck and are very limited.

ChatGPT suggested a total of 125 reamps for an amp with Master, Presence, Bass, Mid, Treble & Gain knobs.

 

[laxu]

I may be totally out of my understanding here, but for Tonex or NAM would not, say, 1024 different knob captures, take at least something like ~90 <-> 120 hours of just individual capturing time before even doing the interpolation ? ... that's like around 8 hours a day for 12 <-> 15 days of just capturing ..... anyone that did that would go insane

So to extrapolate ..... if you have a basic Amp with just 6 x knobs ie: G / B / M / T / P / MV .... to get roughly 1024 capture points across 6 differnet interacting knobs, each knob can only be captured at just over 3 [ 3.2 ] distinct settings .... so that leaves an awful lot of very large "gaps" for the interpolation to be right and accurate in "filling in" ?)

Again, my apologies up front if my math's is fucked up.

Neural DSP uses some randomization to pick the ranges between the extremes for each control, and this seems to work well to train the neural network without having e.g 10^number of knobs permutations.

Similarly their Tina system is for automating this so someone doesn't need to sit there turning knobs. But still, there's really very little evidence that this is working for them when the QC hasn't had new amp models in ages that are not just plugin conversions.

 

[BenIfin]

I like a good dose of accuracy as much as the next person .... but I just want good tones that feel good to play and sound good.

I mean look as my signature - HX Stomp with GP5 in Loop running 4 x Amalgam NAM profiles .... yep on paper not brilliant - the demo I posted with NAM profiles in the GP5 aren't as "crispy" good as in the NAM Player - but once you do some very simple and quick tweaks to the whole signal chain and your global eq's etc.... this combo sounds and feels fucking awesome - as in a live 4 hour gig scenario through my Matrix GT800 and Celestion F12-200.

I think / hope / expect (?) that the MK2 2.0 LP's will be "more good'er" but maybe they wont be (?) - in which case I'll sell my Stage.

My FM3 has been collecting dust for some months so its days are probably numbered

Both the 2 new Stadium's are total overkill for my needs .... but the next gen "Stompium" - whenever it arrives - will be an instant Day 1 buy.

 

[2dor]

I like a good dose of accuracy as much as the next person .... but I just want good tones that feel good to play and sound good.

I mean look as my signature - HX Stomp with GP5 in Loop running 4 x Amalgam NAM profiles .... yep on paper not brilliant - the demo I posted with NAM profiles in the GP5 aren't as "crispy" good as in the NAM Player - but once you do some very simple and quick tweaks to the whole signal chain and your global eq's etc.... this combo sounds and feels fucking awesome - as in a live 4 hour gig scenario through my Matrix GT800 and Celestion F12-200.

I think / hope / expect (?) that the MK2 2.0 LP's will be "more good'er" but maybe they wont be (?) - in which case I'll sell my Stage.

My FM3 has been collecting dust for some months so its days are probably numbered

Both the 2 new Stadium's are total overkill for my needs .... but the next gen "Stompium" - whenever it arrives - will be an instant Day 1 buy.

That Stadium Stomp is going to sell like hotcakes.

 

[Jarick]

Aren’t we still waiting for the first Tina amp after two years?

 

[Lysander]

Aren’t we still waiting for the first Tina amp after two years?

Not two years, but TINA™ was announced on July 31 2024, and i'm 99% certain the Quad Cortex hasn't gotten a single new amp model since.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Not two years, but TINA™ was announced on July 31 2024, and i'm 99% certain the Quad Cortex hasn't gotten a single new amp model since.

Working out the advertising campaign where you pay them $1800 plus S&H to have TINA make you your own custom amp model of your amp.

 

[BenIfin]

That Stadium Stomp is going to sell like hotcakes.

Yep !

 

[BenIfin]

Aren’t we still waiting for the first Tina amp after two years?

Not two years, but TINA™ was announced on July 31 2024, and i'm 99% certain the Quad Cortex hasn't gotten a single new amp model since.

Working out the advertising campaign where you pay them $1800 plus S&H to have TINA make you your own custom amp model of your amp.

Yep. I think there's a lot less to TINA than NDSP were "marketing". I highly doubt it even exists in the physical form that the "video's" showed ?

 

[2dor]

Yep. I think there's a lot less to TINA than NDSP were "marketing". I highly doubt it even exists in the physical form that the "video's" showed ?

Maybe not in the exact form but it looks like TINA's what they resorted to when rebuilding the X versions of their plugins:

 

[Lysander]

Maybe not in the exact form but it looks like TINA's what they resorted to when rebuilding the X versions of their plugins:

You got me all excited and it turns out that video is 10 months old

 

[2dor]

You got me all excited and it turns out that video is 10 months old

It's very cool to see this stuff in action but I also can't help but wonder why aren't they churning out more plugins or new devices for the QC.

 

[DrewJD82]

It's very cool to see this stuff in action but I also can't help but wonder why aren't they churning out more plugins or new devices for the QC.

Because they haven’t figured out how to spin it so people are happy paying for non-plugin content yet.

 

[Dimiguitar]

What I wonder is... Why keep the old profiling if the new one is better and faster?

I suppose stuff like ..

1) It can be done purely on device without computer editor. 2) Some may prefer the innacuracies. Kemper mojo and such.

And 3) 2.0 profiles made with MKII and editor can also play on MKI, but via reduced "resolution" (whatever that means).

So people on MKI still have some access to profiles made with the new method. Commercial packs and such.