Kemper Profiler MK 2

[Dimiguitar]

The full video must contain more important stuff. It can't just be more of this.

 

[dws2384]

The full video must contain more important stuff. It can't just be more of this.

You think they would have pulled a better 60 second snippet if it did lol.

No talking points were better to publish on their multiple social media accounts than showing off the dropdown box?

 

[Gary_W]

I really hope they’ve got something to show. I totally get that the company has a long history with the Mk1 of giving free updates that were *always* late but worth the wait when they got there. For that reason, I think they’ve always shrugged off criticism of their comms and stretched deadlines as they were ultimately giving you something cool for free. I get that.

Not communicating now / still having ‘expected Summer’ on their website is just plain rude….. this isn’t a free upgrade. There are loyal customers out there who paid for a Mk2 in May / June and I’m not convinced that many of them will have done this for the tiny increments already in the system vs Mk1….. the only thing worthy of the upgrade (in my opinion and I realise that’s not universal) was the promise of the new profiling. I’ve always found my mk1 stable, I don’t use all the fx slots I have, I don’t care that it boots up a little quicker. The sloping front nearly had me reach for my wallet vs buying a Stadium but not quite

I totally get that timescales drift but the people waiting for news now are either paying customers who have bought mk2 already or potential customers deciding whether to give them upgrade money. Get a grip of your communications for heavens sake and talk to people like grown ups. There’s still a product there that is the right fit for a lot of people - it’s crazy how they’re seeming to not care about how they look right now.

 

[Dimiguitar]

You think they would have pulled a better 60 second snippet if it did lol.

No talking points were better to publish on their multiple social media accounts than showing off the dropdown box?

I agree with you that it doesn't make sense. What I don't know about is whether they realize that -- at all. So I think there may be more important info coming.

 

[Dimiguitar]

There’s still a product there that is the right fit for a lot of people - it’s crazy how they’re seeming to not care about how they look right now.

For sure they still have a good "amp" solution. I don't know for how long, provided competition, but certainly for now.

 

[Dimiguitar]

I understand how they're competitive for now. I don't know how that will be the case for say the next 10 years if they're locked in/stuck with certain hardware (which some seem to claim, if I understand this correctly). You would hope there's a good plan for a more major re-doing of Kemper.

.. Because I believe IK Multimedia will likely release an all-in-one solution soon, one that will continue to see significant updates and improvements over the years. Meanwhile, Chinese manufacturers are rapidly catching up with increasingly competitive all-in-one units, and native NAM integration doesn’t seem too far off. Neural DSP has already made a massive impact on the European market, and Cliff continues to push Fractal units forward in a way I’ve never seen matched by anyone else..

But for now there's things about Kemper that are unique. No solution integrates a power amp this way, as far as I know. Liquid profiling is cool even if arguably limited, and the library of profiles dwarfs anything else out there in volume.

I just don't know how sustainable their business is anymore, and how desirable what they'll offer moving on will be, provided other solutions. But clearly they're still doing well in sales for now.

 

[Orvillain]

 

[northcountry]

Here is a better explanation of the technology in German. I used subtitles to translate to English. If the translation was accurate — Not AI. Quick. Higher resolution and also a further expansion of liquid profiling.

 

[hunter]

Here is a better explanation of the technology in German. I used subtitles to translate to English. If the translation was accurate — Not AI. Quick. Higher resolution and also a further expansion of liquid profiling.

Here is what he says.
"Yes, exactly. It's still announced, we're not quite finished yet. The new Profiling 2.0 for the Profiler Mark 2. This applies to the Profiler Head, Rack and Stage and to the Profiler Player. But for the entire Player series we will be making a free software update with our Profiling 2.0. It's a completely new development. It's not AI, but a precise measurement that takes an astonishingly short time. But that was more of a happy accident than the goal. The whole profiling process takes under a minute and it's very high resolution. The goal was that we would improve on our old profiling system. Yes, and we can already see that the old profile is still amazingly good. The new profiling is brilliant, among other things, also with DI profiles. These are profiles that you record without a cabinet. Uh, the old profiling has a few weaknesses, for example. And, another nice thing about the new profiling is that we determine the bass resonance of the cabinet and the speaker and, as I say, the values of this, it makes the frequency and the intensity visible and you can then adjust them. Yes, it's almost like an extension of our Liquid Profiling, where you have real controls, basically from the real device and the real physics. It is almost like an extension to that. It is true that you can take bass resonance and yes, it really does become lively, so the whole thing is moving away at least for us more and more from the idea that a profile is just a snapshot and that you basically have to take it as it is and take it for granted and exactly or if you adjust it if you want to modify things that these modifications are also authentic and not somehow artificial. Okay, that was always our goal. We have to introduce new sounds. It is also intended for Player Level 1." - CK


Less static cabs than IR with a realistic modelling of bass resonance is where I am totally in! Depending how well it's done

 

[Dimiguitar]

Here is what he says.
"Yes, exactly. It's still announced, we're not quite finished yet. The new Profiling 2.0 for the Profiler Mark 2. This applies to the Profiler Head, Rack and Stage and to the Profiler Player. But for the entire Player series we will be making a free software update with our Profiling 2.0. It's a completely new development. It's not AI, but a precise measurement that takes an astonishingly short time. But that was more of a happy accident than the goal. The whole profiling process takes under a minute and it's very high resolution. The goal was that we would improve on our old profiling system. Yes, and we can already see that the old profile is still amazingly good. The new profiling is brilliant, among other things, also with DI profiles. These are profiles that you record without a cabinet. Uh, the old profiling has a few weaknesses, for example. And, another nice thing about the new profiling is that we determine the bass resonance of the cabinet and the speaker and, as I say, the values of this, it makes the frequency and the intensity visible and you can then adjust them. Yes, it's almost like an extension of our Liquid Profiling, where you have real controls, basically from the real device and the real physics. It is almost like an extension to that. It is true that you can take bass resonance and yes, it really does become lively, so the whole thing is moving away at least for us more and more from the idea that a profile is just a snapshot and that you basically have to take it as it is and take it for granted and exactly or if you adjust it if you want to modify things that these modifications are also authentic and not somehow artificial. Okay, that was always our goal. We have to introduce new sounds. It is also intended for Player Level 1." - CK


Less static cabs than IR with a realistic modelling of bass resonance is where I am totally in! Depending how well it's done

Sounds interesting!

 

[Tanax]

The proof is in the pudding. All that sounds great, but means nothing until we get to hear it

 

[Dimiguitar]

The proof is in the pudding. All that sounds great, but means nothing until we get to hear it

At least they gave out some information about what they're doing. I think just a sign of life is enough for many. I'm glad they did more than just press two buttons in the editor, at least in terms of explanation.

 

[northcountry]

I’m not against AI but I like the idea that they are charting a course without it and that the profiles may be more adjustable. In a way they are forging their own path. It probably won’t beat AI in null tests, but is that all that important?

 

[Tritium3H]

Only issue with Tonex is that it is not as of yet an all in one device. If you want FX of equal quality you need to go outside the IKM world and spend some $$. Tonex and a VP4 = ~ same as KPP maxed, Tonex w/H90 = > KPP or a used FM3T, Tonex and the appropriate Strymon collection = >> either.

Not to forget the additional latency hit caused by adding another device requiring AD/DA conversion. Unfortunately, S/PDIF is not available on the ToneX, although it is featured on the Fractal VP4. For a complete, feature-rich pedalboard device, the KPP is hard to beat.

 

[DrewJD82]

 

[dws2384]

Here is what he says.
"Yes, exactly. It's still announced, we're not quite finished yet. The new Profiling 2.0 for the Profiler Mark 2. This applies to the Profiler Head, Rack and Stage and to the Profiler Player. But for the entire Player series we will be making a free software update with our Profiling 2.0. It's a completely new development. It's not AI, but a precise measurement that takes an astonishingly short time. But that was more of a happy accident than the goal. The whole profiling process takes under a minute and it's very high resolution. The goal was that we would improve on our old profiling system. Yes, and we can already see that the old profile is still amazingly good. The new profiling is brilliant, among other things, also with DI profiles. These are profiles that you record without a cabinet. Uh, the old profiling has a few weaknesses, for example. And, another nice thing about the new profiling is that we determine the bass resonance of the cabinet and the speaker and, as I say, the values of this, it makes the frequency and the intensity visible and you can then adjust them. Yes, it's almost like an extension of our Liquid Profiling, where you have real controls, basically from the real device and the real physics. It is almost like an extension to that. It is true that you can take bass resonance and yes, it really does become lively, so the whole thing is moving away at least for us more and more from the idea that a profile is just a snapshot and that you basically have to take it as it is and take it for granted and exactly or if you adjust it if you want to modify things that these modifications are also authentic and not somehow artificial. Okay, that was always our goal. We have to introduce new sounds. It is also intended for Player Level 1." - CK


Less static cabs than IR with a realistic modelling of bass resonance is where I am totally in! Depending how well it's done

So no reason it shouldn’t play on mk1 series chip with the same DSP chip then? Also strange that if it’s mostly the same process but higher resolution why it’s taking so long. Anyways, I hope it’s great but I’m sceptical and nothing he said there inspires much confidence of it being a big step forwards. Also, happy accident? Lol. Usually even if that’s the case you don’t mention that. First time I’ve heard him say that the original profiling had any weaknesses though.

 

[Monkey Man]

Less static cabs than IR...

This was always the case but the bass-resonance stuff he talked about is new.

I can't remember the deets but IIRC some of the behaviour due to impedance (physical as well as electrical) was captured.

 

[Gary_W]

Trade shows are really expensive to attend and you book your place a long way in advance. There’s been major shows that Kemper haven’t attended in the past due to having nothing new to show at that time. The fact they were there surely means they were expecting to show the mk2 profiling at this event otherwise, based on past behaviour, they simply wouldn’t have bothered going and saved the budget.

The fact that their website still says ‘expected Summer’ and they then turn up to a show and present precisely nothing are two good indicators that this is running late. I wish they would communicate and throw their users a bone.

But for now there's things about Kemper that are unique. No solution integrates a power amp this way, as far as I know. Liquid profiling is cool even if arguably limited, and the library of profiles dwarfs anything else out there in volume.

I just don't know how sustainable their business is anymore, and how desirable what they'll offer moving on will be, provided other solutions. But clearly they're still doing well in sales for now.

Their mantra has always been that profiling tech gives better results than modelling tech. Moving more towards liquid profiles (I like liquid but the tonestack is ‘just a model’) plus him now finally saying the profiling he always claimed is perfect is not perfect? That’s not helping in the fight against other units out there that claim modelling is the way to go. There are solutions out there (and they are multiplying) where they do the modelling aspect much more effectively than Kemper and now there are things that do both. If their new capture tech isn’t in a (patentable!) class of its own then their offering becomes increasingly difficult to position in a crowded market. And when your marketing department appears to not exist (if their communications style is anything to go by) then that’s an issue.

This was always the case but the bass-resonance stuff he talked about is new.

I can't remember the deets but IIRC some of the behaviour due to impedance (physical as well as electrical) was captured.

Hi MM - I remember you from a few years back on the Kemper forum and I hope you’re keeping well :) Although I still have (and like) my Mk1 toaster, you can probably tell from the above that they’ve lost me as an upgrade customer….. I still wish them well and hope they manage to pull something out of the bag. And learn from some of the other companies that communication, done right, is a good thing.

 

[2dor]

Here is what he says.
"Yes, exactly. It's still announced, we're not quite finished yet. The new Profiling 2.0 for the Profiler Mark 2. This applies to the Profiler Head, Rack and Stage and to the Profiler Player. But for the entire Player series we will be making a free software update with our Profiling 2.0. It's a completely new development. It's not AI, but a precise measurement that takes an astonishingly short time. But that was more of a happy accident than the goal. The whole profiling process takes under a minute and it's very high resolution. The goal was that we would improve on our old profiling system. Yes, and we can already see that the old profile is still amazingly good. The new profiling is brilliant, among other things, also with DI profiles. These are profiles that you record without a cabinet. Uh, the old profiling has a few weaknesses, for example. And, another nice thing about the new profiling is that we determine the bass resonance of the cabinet and the speaker and, as I say, the values of this, it makes the frequency and the intensity visible and you can then adjust them. Yes, it's almost like an extension of our Liquid Profiling, where you have real controls, basically from the real device and the real physics. It is almost like an extension to that. It is true that you can take bass resonance and yes, it really does become lively, so the whole thing is moving away at least for us more and more from the idea that a profile is just a snapshot and that you basically have to take it as it is and take it for granted and exactly or if you adjust it if you want to modify things that these modifications are also authentic and not somehow artificial. Okay, that was always our goal. We have to introduce new sounds. It is also intended for Player Level 1." - CK


Less static cabs than IR with a realistic modelling of bass resonance is where I am totally in! Depending how well it's done

Sounds promising. I personally don’t care what they're using as long as the results faithfully represent the captured gear.

 

[BenIfin]

Sounds promising. I personally don’t care what they're using as long as the results faithfully represent the captured gear.

^ This is all that matters ^

Either it will (i) sound about the same as MK1 Profiling ? -or- (ii) be a bit better sounding than MK1 Profiling (?) -or- (iii) be noticeably better than MK1 Profiling and be on par with the current market leader(s) (?)

I couldn't give two hoots "how" they do it as long as its (iii) ..... here's hoping