Kemper Player - 1st [ Paid for ? ] Update coming very soon ?

Oh daily.

The Kemper Player's doing better than I thought it'd be :bag
Yeah I think it is a decent product, overall. Accuracy shenanigans aside, and tiers/tears aside, it is a product that people were asking for, for quite some time.

It aint for me though, for all aforementioned reasons. But also:

- 3-LED tuner. No thanks.
- No top level presence control.
- No profiling (I'm one of the few who care about this it would seem!)
- Mono input. Chairman Laow that.
- Mono XLR output. Haaaard Pol Pot Pass.
- No improvements to the length of the supported impulse responses.
- Requires a usb midi adapter to do anything clever with program changes.
- Delays and Reverbs are not to my taste. I also don't like how their mix control works.
- Spillover options/settings are a paid update.
- Rig x-fade time is a paid update.
- The looper is a paid update.

There just isn't enough there for me to spend £535 on it, plus the additional £290 to get the features I care about, in the face of a ton of features I don't care about.

I'd rather spend more and get the Quad Cortex, which is what I have done! Having quite a lot of fun with my captures recently, and it sounds good in front of a valve amp. I'm sacking off 4-cable method for now.
 
I don't even really know why you'd make the distinction, other than snobbery against people who don't play live.

No snobbery from my side at all, just explaining certain things.

Such as, say, global blocks (or the Kemper sort-of-equivalent, namely parameter locks). Which may have zero influence on a home player. It pretty much wouldn't for me, in case I wasn't playing live.

At the same time, whatever last ounces of accuracy simply are almost completely irrlevant for my live playing purposes (and the same is true for many other live players I know, regardless of their fame). Sure, there's a certain "basic sound quality" you want, but these days all of the usual suspects (including the Kemper) are delivering that. And beyond those basic qualities, it's completely different things becoming vastly more important. Such as ease of use, utilitarian functions, transportability, perhaps also ease of getting a backup, etc.

For all of these reasons, I will purchase a GT-1000 in some weeks (some shows coming up where it'll come in super handy). Something pretty much each and every home noodler will have a good laugh about. And perhaps even rightly so. Still, for me, it'll very likely be *the* perfect live companion that none of the others even come remotely close to for a variety of reasons (some mentioned above already).
It's got global blocks (only the Axe FX can compete). It's got an EXP pedal onboard (which I really like for the majority of gigs I'm playing). It's got a mobile OS editor. It's got terrifically fast patch switching, almost gapless (and completely gapless in case you only change parameters) with reverb/delay spillover (pretty much none of the others can compete). It's super backpack and suitcase friendly, something making my life a *whole* lot easier for some gigs. It's road-worthy. It's got excellent stage visibility under pretty much all conditions (looking at you, Helix Floor...). Having a backup is easy (in case I'm happy I may buy a Core or even second full one, also, at least in Germany, should it break, I'd have a replacement the very next day).
And what not.
Pretty much none of these are relevant for any home dweller. But they're very important for me, especially as they're coming combined in one single convenient package.
And to get somewhat back to topic: The Kemper is checking some of these boxes, too (at least the Stage).

And to add to all of the above: For the kind of gigs I'm playing, a device checking all my boxes will likely even help me to get a better (!) sound than whatever most authentic sounding piece of kit - simply because I'm able to quickly adjust my sounds to suit an unknown environment (lots of my gigs are just like that).
 
There's obviously a lot of variability here, and it doesn't go into live versus non-live usage.

A pretty irrelevant list. For this list to be really meaningful, it'd have to cover direct sales as well. And possibly even the 2nd hand market.
Given that list, any FAS products don't even exist. But they do exist, no?
 
@Sascha Franck

Oh you've reminded me of another reason - spillover is NOT available for the ABCD slots, and since I run my delays and reverbs in front of high-gain amps because that is my sound, the Kemper is actually not perfect for me in that respect. It is actually supremely annoying.

Thus, as ever, individual needs and preferences are the rule of law when it comes to this stuff.
 
A pretty irrelevant list. For this list to be really meaningful, it'd have to cover direct sales as well. And possibly even the 2nd hand market.
Given that list, any FAS products don't even exist. But they do exist, no?
It is more meaningful than one random dude on a forum saying that it is the number one product for live guitarists evarrrrrrrrrr.
 
Yeah I think it is a decent product, overall. Accuracy shenanigans aside, and tiers/tears aside, it is a product that people were asking for, for quite some time.

It aint for me though, for all aforementioned reasons. But also:

- 3-LED tuner. No thanks.
- No top level presence control.
- No profiling (I'm one of the few who care about this it would seem!)
- Mono input. Chairman Laow that.
- Mono XLR output. Haaaard Pol Pot Pass.
- No improvements to the length of the supported impulse responses.
- Requires a usb midi adapter to do anything clever with program changes.
- Delays and Reverbs are not to my taste. I also don't like how their mix control works.
- Spillover options/settings are a paid update.
- Rig x-fade time is a paid update.
- The looper is a paid update.

There just isn't enough there for me to spend £535 on it, plus the additional £290 to get the features I care about, in the face of a ton of features I don't care about.

I'd rather spend more and get the Quad Cortex, which is what I have done! Having quite a lot of fun with my captures recently, and it sounds good in front of a valve amp. I'm sacking off 4-cable method for now.
15-LED tuner, needle or strobe. I've always liked the Kemper tuner for whatever reason.

Otherwise (y)
 
More or less what @OneEng was driving at.

Well, he might even be right.

Zero statistic evidence, but given my personal observations, I'd have no issues to believe it. I know plenty of folks in the "no-own-project-but-all-sorts-of-sideman-and-functional-job" realm playing Kempers.

Helices are a thing, too and as of lately the QC is defenitely catching up quite a bit as the first device allowing people without a degree in menu-diving to come up with decent patches easily (no idea about the Tonemaster, should be catching up, too).
In my musical universe, the latter is a big issue and I keep getting looks when I show folks, say, some HX ecosystem tricks, simply because they'd never even bother themselves to get into all that nerd stuff. Which is what a lot of our forum talk is centered around. But there's still many, many players who aren't interested in any kinda geekery, yet they want to at least check the modeling waters. Or they simply need to because of venue/job requirements.

And that's precisely where the Kemper had a pretty firm and safe place during the last years. Even technically untalented folks would manage to profile their amps. And in case they wouldn't, there's professional sellers covering their needs for sure. Also, once you have some presets ready, it's dead easy to modify them (at least in a modest way) as there's pretty much no menu work involved. Then, for many people the fixed signal path is an advance rather than a shortcoming. After all, it represents the routing of 95% of all famous guitar rigs just fine.

Things may change these days, though. There's plenty of digital natives entering the scene. For those, menus, editor apps and what not aren't some obscure nerd stuff but things they're dealing with each day anyway.
 
15-LED tuner, needle or strobe. I've always liked the Kemper tuner for whatever reason.

Otherwise (y)
I’d also like to express my fondness for that particular strobe tuner

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If we're ignoring the amount of bands out there who don't use modelling at all, for the moment... I've seen more Helix units out there in the wild than I have Kemper. I did see one band use Kemper once, and they didn't plug into the PA. FOH must've told them to keep the guitars low on stage, and he'd mic them in the mains... but you could barely hear the guitars. It was quite sad to see tbh. Wasn't a huge venue or anything, probably a sound engineer who sniffed glue from his sisters sock drawer, so.... not hugely relevant.

But that sort of brings me around to why I have the perspective I do. It isn't informed by bedroom playing, but rather some solid years playing shows and doing mini tours around the UK. After nearly 18 years of playing shows with TNBD across the UK, in small, mid, and large sized venues, I've rarely seen modelling in use, and most of the venues just aren't really suitable for it - shit PA's, shit stage monitoring, and so you end up taking so much equipment that all the benefits of modelling get lost.

I do also think there are genre/style elements to this. A doom metal band would most likely never use modelling live. Because the entire aesthetic of that genre is loud cranked up to the hilt valve amps. That's what the music calls for.

For my live Sloganyear stuff, I'm quite happy using "modelled" synths. I don't take a stack of Moogs with me or anything. Because there is no need. So it really comes down to choosing the right tool for the job. Which is different for everyone.

I did toy with an Axe FX II setup years ago in TNBD. It couldn't compete with the Laney VH100R that the other guitarist used, and I just gave up. Partly for workflow reasons, partly for volume/cut-through-the-mix reasons, and partly for aesthetic reasons.
 
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Kemper tuner is fine I use it, but I miss my Turbo Tuner, which lives in the drawer with other great pedals.
 
So NDSP is ‘trending’ and how many years have they been shipping out QC? How many Kempers have shipped?
Seems like your Thoman stats are anecdotal in every sense of the word the minute you tried to extrapolate the results to support the assertion you made.

For someone to suggest Kemper has a larger user base isn’t as much of a reach as what your assertion is.
Now If you want to say Kemper has slipped to number 3 in Thoman’s current shipping then you would be accurate…and isn’t accuracy the ultimate test?!?
 
So NDSP is ‘trending’ and how many years have they been shipping out QC? How many Kempers have shipped?
Seems like your Thoman stats are anecdotal in every sense of the word the minute you tried to extrapolate the results to support the assertion.
For someone to suggest Kemper has a larger user base isn’t as much of a reach as what. If you want to say Kemper has slipped to number 3 in Thomas’s current shipping then you would be accurate…and isn’t accuracy the ultimate test?!?
Okay Christophe.

1727992424715.png
 
I'm pretty sure theyve been top of sales since they launched. I wouldn't call it "trending".
Call it what you want. I was using ‘trending’ to allude to the mindset used to make the unfounded claim using what amounts to instagram views = absolute.
How many units total have each company put in the hands of people playing guitar and then use that data to either support or strike down the assertion made regarding who has the ‘most players currently’.

If you want to geek out you would also have to see how strong was Kemper at their launch? How long before the ‘shiney new thing’ effect wore off and sales leveled out for the next couple years…
Of course you will have to wait another year or two to even be able to compare that stat.

I don’t know the numbers but simple logic says Kemper has a stronger user base than was put forth but someone needed it to seem like it wasn’t true.
 
I don’t know the numbers but simple logic says Kemper has a stronger user base than was put forth.
We get it. Kemper can do no wrong, data be damned.

It's not even worth having a discussion with you. Anything that doesn't fit your narrative is just incorrect.

We are presenting the available data we have. Do with it what you will (which we all know will be to discard it because you don't like it)
 
Wow, much projection there. I avoid creating ‘facts’, offer logic based on known events.
Like what Kemper said about their pricing vs what some whining on the net asserts.
I point you to the obvious long sales record vs QC relatively short sales term. Etc etc.

It isn’t what I don’t or do like it’s simple logic and rational thought process giving data it’s true weight vs. creative interpretation of data and poo emoji food fight mentality.
 
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