Kemper Player - 1st [ Paid for ? ] Update coming very soon ?

[Orvillain]

Wait, so was GH3 actually Guitar Hero 3?

It could've been Gran Halen 3, I don't know.

 

[ian_dissonance]

It could've been Gran Halen 3, I don't know.

Hawt.
I was just trying to figure out why it was an important resume point.

 

[Sascha Franck]

HARDLY ANYONE uses modelling live.

Dude, you need to wake up, really.

 

[Orvillain]

Dude, you need to wake up, really.

You've just proved my point about your selective quoting.

The nature of the kind of music and scene I play within, HARDLY ANYONE uses modelling live.

That's the full sentence. I don't know if it is some sort of reading comprehension failure, or a language barrier, or what. But please please please stop doing this. I beseech you!

 

[Sascha Franck]

You've just proved my point about your selective quoting.

Yeah ok, sorry. I've been too fast with my reply.

However, what are you going to tell us with the full sentence? It's still anecdotal evidence.

 

[ian_dissonance]

If anyone can just pick up a goal post and move it wherever….

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Yeah ok, sorry. I've been too fast with my reply.

However, what are you going to tell us with the full sentence? It's still anecdotal evidence.

Is he trying to manipulate the readers inference with his 'qualifying caveat' "nature of the kind of music and scene I play within"?
Is he playing in a genre/venue that requires real amps? Mom's garage?

 

[Orvillain]

Is he trying to manipulate the readers inference with his 'qualifying caveat' "nature of the kind of music and scene I play within"?
Is he playing in a genre/venue that requires real amps? Mom's garage?

More appeals to someone's musical CV (or lack of it) ???? You guys....

Yeah ok, sorry. I've been too fast with my reply.

However, what are you going to tell us with the full sentence? It's still anecdotal evidence.

Simply that modellers are more common in certain genres and venues and types of playing, than others. So while your experience might be that accuracy or authenticity isn't all that important to your live performance, my experience is the opposite.

 

[Foxmeister]

I would say the Helix is accurate but with room to improve. I would not say it’s the most accurate out there, and similarly with a Kemper, some users might find it good enough (knowing that other platforms sound a little better).

Leaving aside measurable artifacts such as aliasing etc, it's difficult to say exactly how accurate (or not) the Helix models are unless you have access to the original amps that Line 6 used to create the models.

This isn't true for profilers though, since if you are making your own profiles you have access to both the amp and the profile.

 

[Sascha Franck]

So while your experience might be that accuracy or authenticity isn't all that important to your live performance, my experience is the opposite.

Which is absolutely fine either way.

As said umpteenth times before: Apart from having no horse in that race, I absolutely acknowledge the lack of Kemper accuracy compared to others. I also acknowledge that this is the reason for some people to not like it. Just as I acknowledge the reasons for some people to still use amps on stage (even if from my own experiences one of the reasons is stupidity and stubbornness, at least for some folks - and no, I'm not looking at you or anyone else round these parts).

Yet, the conclusion that the Kemper would be a bad unit all around (which is in fact what some of you folks at least seem to want to make out of it - as has as well been noticed not just by me) is just non-sensical. IMO, if you are looking for a profile player serving well live, the Kemper is still ranking very high, at least as long as you didn't want to get through all the hoops involved to make a Tonex or Dimehead unit work. Sure, the QC is catching up, but for my personal needs, the Kemper very likely would still win. And it wouldn't only win in a profiler vs profiler comparison but it'd even rank quite high in a guitar-amp-simulation vs. guitar-amp-simulation comparison. And there's good reasons for it, too.

But, again and again and again, you can still bemoan the lack of accuracy. I'm perfectly fine with it. Even so much that I applaud people finding out about such things.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Leaving aside measurable artifacts such as aliasing etc, it's difficult to say exactly how accurate (or not) the Helix models are unless you have access to the original amps that Line 6 used to create the models.

This isn't true for profilers though, since if you are making your own profiles you have access to both the amp and the profile.

Yep exactly.

 

[creative360]

So is this thread just for the fun of semantics? No one has ever jumped ship because of a graph. Or a QC. Or a Tonex.

People definitely jump ship for a Fractal, but that’s for tone + even more so quality of life preferences, not because some limitation has been revealed about other options. And if those switches are occurring because of a thread, it’s just another hobbyist buying something to sound not so great on because it’s the device he thinks he’s supposed to own.

Since other brands copied Kemper’s innovation, and marketed heavily and often misleadingly their new products at the highest and lowest price points in the field, profiling or whatever you want to call it now, finally became something all the years-long naysayers wanted. This had nothing to do with null tests, or clips, but with amp captures included in packages, of amps they’d never hear in person.

People began reporting that they preferred these over models, but whatever, while I generally agree, it made it clear again that bad is just bad. It’s not as if after getting better raw amps from new tech, everyone suddenly and miraculously made clips that sounded better. These adopters were just as likely to herald crappy tones with the newer tech as with the traditional modelers.

But it’s great that this stuff is available to everyone now, saved in the cloud for those freaks, with in-device purchases for those freaks. And yes mad respect for the NAM folks, but making their efforts in to a successful pro device or platform has very little to to with their science. Wishing them well though.

A couple months after selling a holy grail Dumble clone and ev12L cab to some kid in South Carolina, I noticed he put up some Kemper profiles of the amp on the rig exchange. I was so excited for a moment, until I heard what he had done. It had nothing to do with the accuracy of the tech, this kid just had no idea what a good tone was, or maybe how to mic an amp.

Any difference in perceived accuracy, or more likely in claimed but not truthfully perceived accuracy, is probably last on the list of what will add up to a guitar sound worth hearing.

I’ve heard both in person: profiles that were slightly off, and more often ones where none of us could ever tell the difference in a/b challenges. And at a show or on a record, none of you would have any idea which of those examples fell in to which category.

ymmv

pleasehelp-theselongpostshavetostop™

 

[Mongillo19]

No one has ever jumped ship because of a graph. Or a QC. Or a Tonex.

Wait are you saying nobody has changed from Kemper to Tone X or QC

 

[Foxmeister]

I'm on Level 3 of the Kemper Player (x2) and can't do anything. The iOS and iPadOS versions don't even recognize the upgrades correctly. It's a complete disaster.

Most odd, because the Android version seems to be fine.

 

[creative360]

Wait are you saying nobody has changed from Kemper to Tone X or QC

Not for the reasons you imply, and not in a pro context. I respect folks who switch because for example they like the sexy silver box better or even the big touchscreen w ugly graphic interface, or conversely because a price is impossible to beat. But no, no one’s “jumping ship” as you put it, as if pros have identified a sickness and are now trying to save themselves. Nothing like that is happening.

 

[Mongillo19]

Not for the reasons you imply, and not in a pro context. I respect folks who switch because for example they like the sexy silver box better or even the big touchscreen w ugly graphic interface, or conversely because a price is impossible to beat. But no, no one’s “jumping ship” as you put it, as if pros have identified a sickness and are now trying to save themselves. Nothing like that is happening.

I never used the term jumping ship lol

And what a wild statement

 

[creative360]

oh sorry someone else used the phrase.

 

[creative360]

I truly wish that any one of these platforms was clearly the best path toward making great guitar music. but nothing has come out in ten years or more that has presented a compelling definitive reason to abandon one for another. And meanwhile the ease and joy of real amps reigns supreme in studios and on small stages. And anecdotally, kids are looking more and more in that direction these days. Maybe a good thing who knows.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Anecdotally at shows I attend and play, the less professional of a presentation, the more likely there are amps on stage. The bands that are well rehearsed with a prepared “show” are almost all running Kempers/Helix/QC (in that order of visibility) and then the closer to “punk” you get the more likely it’s amps. It’s not specific to an age range or genre. Anecdotally, of course.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Anecdotally at shows I attend and play, the less professional of a presentation, the more likely there are amps on stage. The bands that are well rehearsed with a prepared “show” are almost all running Kempers/Helix/QC (in that order of visibility) and then the closer to “punk” you get the more likely it’s amps. It’s not specific to an age range or genre. Anecdotally, of course.

Might be anecdotally, but I can share the same observations. There's varying degrees of modeling "percentage", though. Some folks are going all in, others (like me right now, at least for the time being) are using hybrid rigs, some are running into IEM systems, others are still using traditional cabs, etc.

On a possibly somewhat interesting sidenote: I see very little people doing it like me, as in using a modeler and a dedicated (read: just for their guitars) fullrange monitor. Most people are either running into an IEM setup, use the provided (or band) monitoring or run into some kinda power amp and a guitar cab.
I'm actually wondering about that a bit, because I found my personal wedge to be a pretty perfect happy medium. Allows me to use all the goodies of modeling (running my acoustic guitars through it as well, having independent monitoring level and EQing) while still offering some physical separation from the rest of the monitored signals (which I find to be incredibly useful) - and all that without having to use IEMs, which I only like for very loud gigs or tours with more than, say, 3-4 shows in a row (so I avoid them whenever the situation doesn't dictate them, such as on "clicked" shows).

Anyhow, modeling is creeping into pretty much all live areas and there's some kinda gigs which you wouldn't survive anymore without a modeling setup of some sorts (or at least a silent DI setup), such as pretty much all musical theatre shows and a whole lot of functional gigs. Regarding the latter, by now you even are expected to go for IEM, which I pretty much hate. Just last weekend I subbed for someone, brought my monitor as usual, drummer had an acoustic set, so I thought everything would be fine. Until I noticed the bass player had no amp with him. Yuck. So I had to go with IEM, too - which I actually hate on subbing gigs as there's no communication possible.