Kemper Player - 1st [ Paid for ? ] Update coming very soon ?

[JiveTurkey]

Thing is; I don't think accuracy is a hill a Helix user should choose to die upon. Guitarjon endless video barrage aside.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But you keep making that argument when people are just stating whether it is or isn’t, lol.

No, people keep stating that the Kemper would be inherently worse just because of it's less accurate profiling. Which it isn't. At least not necessarily so.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Thing is; I don't think accuracy is a hill a Helix user should choose to die upon. Guitarjon endless video barrage aside.

Done!

 

[Sascha Franck]

(seriously, as everybody will know, I couldn't care less...)

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Thing is; I don't think accuracy is a hill a Helix user should choose to die upon. Guitarjon endless video barrage aside.

I sort of agree, but I don’t think Helix is quite as demonstrably inaccurate in the way a Kemper is.

Profiling tech is designed to just make a 1:1 model of an existing sound so it’s really easy to A/B and make objective statements.

I would say the Helix is accurate but with room to improve. I would not say it’s the most accurate out there, and similarly with a Kemper, some users might find it good enough (knowing that other platforms sound a little better).

 

[JiveTurkey]

I sort of agree, but I don’t think Helix is quite as demonstrably inaccurate in the way a Kemper is.

Profiling tech is designed to just make a 1:1 model of an existing sound so it’s really easy to A/B and make objective statements.

I would say the Helix is accurate but with room to improve. I would not say it’s the most accurate out there, and similarly with a Kemper, some users might find it good enough (knowing that other platforms sound a little better).

I know. I just felt like some

 

[ian_dissonance]

Thing is; I don't think accuracy is a hill a Helix user should choose to die upon. Guitarjon endless video barrage aside.

Was I saying Helix was any more accurate than anything else? Was anyone?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Was I saying Helix was any more accurate than anything else? Was anyone?

Yes?

 

[ian_dissonance]

No, people keep stating that the Kemper would be inherently worse just because of its less accurate profiling. Which it isn't. At least not necessarily so.

But it is worse as being an accurate profile, lol.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

All our gear nitpicking is because we want the best thing for our own enjoyment, preferences and practicalities.

That’s great but if someone’s ‘enjoyment, preference and practicality’ depends on unjustly publicly accusing another person of malevolence then they have something much more serious than a gear preference problem.

 

[Sascha Franck]

and similarly with a Kemper, some users might find it good enough (knowing that other platforms sound a little better).

As said before, some people seem to think that Kemper profiles actually *sound* better than their originals.
I know, we're in the realm of semantics here - but to avoid confusion, it's absolutely relevant to make a distinction between "does thing XYZ scientifically better" and "sounds better".

Sure, we could then as well instantly stop any discussion once it's about the (highly subjective) perception of sound/tone, but in this case (or in case of, say, L6 vs. FAS or anything else...), there's some kinda factual evidence for certain devices (in this case the Kemper) to sound absolutely fine on a very high level as there's quite some high profile players using it live since a long time already.

Now, just so that nobody gets me wrong: I absolutely applaud anyone diving deeper into "graph territory". Not only because I'm interested on a sort of scientific level but also because it's defenitely pushing things forward.
In case people wouldn't do so, we possibly still wouldn't have the 2203 in the HX ecosystem (which instantly became one of my more used amps).
And threads such as the plugin leveling one wouldn't exist, either (which I am pretty grateful about as it finally made me analyse my plugin-sim-chain a bit more carefully).
So, I'm all for scientific exploration of whatever it might be.

And still, completely dismissing the Kemper as an inferior sounding unit isn't the entire truth. Not only is there several other aspects to it, no, it's also that the Kemper's (factually) inferior profiling isn't necessarily making it a worse sounding unit. It's just no as accurate.

 

[Orvillain]

Yes, it defenitely implies that. And no, not the only option, but still a very viable one. Because, as easy as that, most companies simply don't care because their target customers are home dwellers.

What piffle, nonsense, and hog-trot.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Yes?

No.

 

[Orvillain]

No, people keep stating that the Kemper would be inherently worse just because of it's less accurate profiling. Which it isn't. At least not necessarily so.

If device X is 90% accurate, and device Y is 92% accurate, then yes... device X is inherently worse than device Y - for accuracy.

 

[Sascha Franck]

What piffle, nonsense, and hog-trot.

No. Most users are home dwellers. That's pretty much proveable.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If device X is 90% accurate, and device Y is 92% accurate, then yes... device X is inherently worse than device Y - for accuracy.

Did you even read what I wrote? When exactly was the time when you have seen me defending the Kemper's accuracy?

 

[Orvillain]

No. Most users are home dwellers. That's pretty much proveable.

So let me see if I'm understanding.... most users are home dwellers, but Kemper are the best because most of their users are not home dwellers, and thus the company puts more emphasis on non-home usage?? What exactly is it you're trying to say? You're not making any sense.

Did you even read what I wrote? When exactly was the time when you have seen me defending the Kemper's accuracy?

Where in my comment did I accuse you of defending Kemper's accuracy? I simply did not.

Apparently you and several others have not been reading what I and others have said on this topic for years now. I laid it out very straight forwardly:

1. It aint accurate. Objective. Disprove or shut up.
2. It doesn't sound good. Subjective. Nothing to prove or disprove.
3. It aint good value for money. Subjective. Nothing to prove or disprove.

It is a very simple concept. You can be concerned by the accuracy of profiles, and still enjoy the unit. You can not be concerned about the accuracy of profiles, and still enjoy the unit. You can also do both of those but not enjoy the unit. You can think the tiered approach is good value for money, you can think it is poor value for money. You can think it is poor value for money and the tiers are not organised in a consumer friendly way. You can take offense to someone else holding that opinion, and proceed to act like a chode.

Everything is on the table!! Gobble up what you want!!!

Nothing said over the last few pages has changed my mind one IOTA.

I don't like the Kemper sound. It sounds poopy to me. I don't like the workflow of the unit. It feels poopy to me. I don't think the Player pedal is a bad product, but I also don't think these upgrades are good value for money. They smell poopy to me.

Poopy poop poopenheimer!

I'm saying multiple things at once. That doesn't mean I'm saying just one thing.

You're taking this:
If device X is 90% accurate, and device Y is 92% accurate, then yes... device X is inherently worse than device Y - for accuracy.


And you're removing the bit in bold in your head, in order to make it seem like I am saying the Kemper is completely worthless purely because of accuracy concerns. I am not.

Although for my tastes, I am saying it is completely worthless for multiple reasons.

 

[Sascha Franck]

So let me see if I'm understanding.... most users are home dwellers, but Kemper are the best because most of their users are not home dwellers, and thus the company puts more emphasis on non-home usage?? What exactly is it you're trying to say? You're not making any sense.

No, I'm trying to say that some of the Kemper's core qualities when using it live often go unnoticed because they're not relevant for home players. As easy as that. Just as for me as a live player the last ounces of accuracy aren't as relevant as for someone playing at home or in a studio setting.

 

[Orvillain]

No, I'm trying to say that some of the Kemper's core qualities when using it live often go unnoticed because they're not relevant for home players. As easy as that. Just as for me as a live player the last ounces of accuracy aren't as relevant as for someone playing at home or in a studio setting.

Cool. That is entirely your prerogative. Not everyone has to share your opinion. I'm certainly not expecting anyone to share mine. Just expressing it.

I'm a live player too, which is why I don't really have any interest in modelling for live usage. To me, an amp and a couple of pedals is way easier. The nature of the kind of music and scene I play within, HARDLY ANYONE uses modelling live. It is usually valve amps. I've seen a lot of Matamp, Orange, Marshall, Mesa Boogie, and 5150 variants. I've seen a few people use modelling, but by no means the majority, or even really a significant minority.

One of my friends who plays in a great band called Din of Celestial Birds, he uses Helix live and he absolutely loves it. The rest of the band uses amps and pedals.

I fully accept I'm not a "Guitar Hero 3" guitarist. Nor am I particularly adept at selling Fractal units. I don't want to be. I like the music I create and the small, medium, and large shows I have played and will continue to play in the future, and that's enough for me! Kemper didn't fit into my approach, in the end. For a multitude of reasons. Not just accuracy related; although that was a major one.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Wait, so was GH3 actually Guitar Hero 3?