Kemper Player - 1st [ Paid for ? ] Update coming very soon ?

[PorcinePicker]

Good lord. This is definitely causing some push back across the internet. People in an uproar all over the place.

Well, they're not charging $299 for something they worked their tails off on. They're charging $299 for a half assed beta that puts back the code they ripped out of the Player on initial release.....and that's breaking functionality on other products that were working fine. Uproar warranted.

 

[GTR37]

Kemper is just trying to react to their falling position. They have felt they don't have to do anything as they dominated their niche until 2021 when the QC released. They just got lucky that the QC had so many issues, and was pretty expensive so it didn't straight up dominate the modeler market, even if it is still the top seller in its category.

The Kemper Stage released a few years too late for what it is, considering people had been asking for a "floor Kemper" for years already.

Kemper's "Liquid Profiling" feature is a kneejerk reaction to the QC captures. On Kemper forums afaik they were experimenting with this years ago but never released it.

The Kemper Player is another product that would have been successful if it came out in say 2020 instead of at the end of 2023. It must've taken them at least a year or two to develop the Player (you don't just "slap" something like this together), so if anything it's most likely another response to the Quad Cortex. "Hey, here's a capture player/multifx for much less money than the QC!"

What they didn't account for is the rise of Tonex and NAM. Now there's not a whole lot of reason to buy Kemper for the average person (rather than the gigging pro) that drive the sales numbers. You can get Kemper's #1 feature for 177 € in a Tonex One. IK's crap software and Tonex One's limited functionality is far less of an issue at that price.

This is spot in
The first problem they had was NDSP because they released a more accurate profiling option.

But by far the biggest problem was IK ToneX because they brought that tech accessible to everyone at dollar store prices

The next problem and even for NDSP is going to be Hotone I predict , as they will take something like the Nano Cortex
Give it a touch screen , great gui compact the the Hotone mini , and throw in all of their 75 effects , capture tech
And sell it for $250
I will be shocked if they don’t have a proto at Namm in January

 

[DrewJD82]

”It’s not paid updates, it’s a paid upgrades”

So what has been released in the last 10 years as a business standard across all the platforms when these companies put out an update? New amps, effects and functionality, correct?

And what comes along with this “paid upgrade that is not a paid update”?

 

[Antipodes]

Owners of the Stage/Toaster/Rack may have complained that they had been burnt if the Player had everything from release and a 700 dollar price tag. Sales of the above units would certainly decline significantly if all the important functionality was in the pocket version at a substantially lower price.

So, by using tiered pricing - which is absolutely everywhere in the audio software (DAW) market - they preserved the pricing of the other SKUs and also the resale price of every unit in the installed base.

To not do as they have done would have cost existing owners and cannibalised Kemper sales. That scenario is A) bad for business and B) likely to generate much criticism on teh webz from all current owners who would howl that they would never buy from Kemper again.

The prices for the new levels are higher than I expected so some disquiet/bitching is understandable. Nevertheless, I don't think any current owners would be happy if Kemper became unprofitable and packed the guitar processor caper in.

The comments on the likely effects of the east asian competition getting up to speed would seem to indicate that there could soon be a bit of a bloodbath in the modelling/capturing biz. The auto industry is currently investing heavily in adult diapers for similar reasons and applying pressure to their governments to put 100% tariffs on electric cars from east asian sources. Audio companies don't have that kind of leverage and will not be protected from such competition unless there is a full spectrum trade war and free trade agreements are abandoned altogether.

 

[Blix]

Owners of the Stage/Toaster/Rack may have complained that they had been burnt if the Player had everything from release and a 700 dollar price tag.

Or they would have welcomed it as an awesome backup solution. Losing some functionality but all your tones are there.

 

[BenIfin]

This is spot in
The first problem they had was NDSP because they released a more accurate profiling option.

But by far the biggest problem was IK ToneX because they brought that tech accessible to everyone at dollar store prices

The next problem and even for NDSP is going to be Hotone I predict , as they will take something like the Nano Cortex
Give it a touch screen , great gui compact the the Hotone mini , and throw in all of their 75 effects , capture tech
And sell it for $250
I will be shocked if they don’t have a proto at Namm in January

^^ You can take this to the Bank. The Ampero Stage *already* has a FREE Beta Firmware where they have added A.I / M.L capturing. Once that Beta is final / release, it will come to the Ampero 2 Stomp also for free .... they are fw / electrically / algorithmically identical units just that the Ampero Stage is bigger with more FSW.

Once that is done .... Ampero will %100 release its own small A.I / M.L "N.C" ..... but with shit-loads more effects / blocks / options / a Screen etc... for less than half the cost of a N.C.

 

[laxu]

Owners of the Stage/Toaster/Rack may have complained that they had been burnt if the Player had everything from release and a 700 dollar price tag. Sales of the above units would certainly decline significantly if all the important functionality was in the pocket version at a substantially lower price.

So, by using tiered pricing - which is absolutely everywhere in the audio software (DAW) market - they preserved the pricing of the other SKUs and also the resale price of every unit in the installed base.

Possible, but at the same time it could have been seen as a backup rig, a desktop pedal etc. The lack of a screen and all the extra buttons and footswitches are big differentiators.

The Helix LT is a full Helix without the scribble strips, some I/O and with a lower quality chassis. The Helix Floor is still selling just fine or Line6 would have discontinued it even though there's a good price difference between them. Those are much closer than a Kemper Stage and Player.

 

[paisleywookiee]

This is spot in
The first problem they had was NDSP because they released a more accurate profiling option.

But by far the biggest problem was IK ToneX because they brought that tech accessible to everyone at dollar store prices

The next problem and even for NDSP is going to be Hotone I predict , as they will take something like the Nano Cortex
Give it a touch screen , great gui compact the the Hotone mini , and throw in all of their 75 effects , capture tech
And sell it for $250
I will be shocked if they don’t have a proto at Namm in January

Yeah, I’ve got to believe the Chinese manufacturers like Hotone and Mooer are looking at NAM and trying to fit it into a pretty box.

 

[yeky83]

Didn't read most of the thread, but I think everyone hates it...?

I kind of like it. $1k for a tiny Kemper Stage. I think it's the most featured modeler in this small 3 footswitch form factor by far.

Not sure why anyone would expect them to release the tiny Kemper Stage for half the price of a Kemper Stage. If you don’t like this pricing, it’s cus you don’t like any of the Kemper product line pricings…

Interested to see how it handles the 8 effect slots or anything else that’s not in the current UI, I guess it’s all app control with those? Manual doesn’t say.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

you don’t like this pricing, it’s cus you don’t like any of the Kemper product line pricings…

That's just nonsense. Maybe you should read the thread to see why people don't like it. It has nothing to do with not liking the pricing of the other kemper products.

 

[yeky83]

That's just nonsense.

How do you expect them to keep selling the Kemper Stage if you want the lvl 3 Kemper Player for half the price?

 

[SillyOctpuss]

How do you expect them to keep selling the Kemper Stage if you want the lvl 3 Kemper Player for half the price?

I don't think anyone asked for that. Why not read the thread to see why people don't like it instead of throwing out theories that don't match up to the genuine criticisms posted.

 

[Orvillain]

How do you expect them to keep selling the Kemper Stage if you want the lvl 3 Kemper Player for half the price?

It has a screen, more switches, direct access to all functionality, profiling... etc.. there are many reasons to buy a stage at its price, with the Kemper Playing doing everything that different levels do out of the box, whilst not cannibalising any sales of either of them.

But this isn't why anyone has beef with the approach anyway.

 

[Aynirar27]

But let's say an update adds an amp model or effect, isn't that also an upgrade? No other company charges for this

If it’s part of an update, it’s just part of an update.

 

[Aynirar27]

How is it an upgrade when you already have everything in the box ???
Do kemper send you a upgrade kit?

I only have an old Kemper toaster so this upgrade doesn’t really have anything to do with me, but it sure seems like this upgrade is adding features that were left out to keep the player at a price point for its release.

It’s not like I’m all for this option or anything, I’ve just never in my life seen anyone complain about having to pay for an upgrade. It’s the reason the word upgrade exists

 

[Antipodes]

Possible, but at the same time it could have been seen as a backup rig, a desktop pedal etc. The lack of a screen and all the extra buttons and footswitches are big differentiators.

The Helix LT is a full Helix without the scribble strips, some I/O and with a lower quality chassis. The Helix Floor is still selling just fine or Line6 would have discontinued it even though there's a good price difference between them. Those are much closer than a Kemper Stage and Player.

The LT comparison is a pretty good point. Whether that would reduce the complaints from stage/toaster/rack owners is another question. I guess the alternative reality where they did put everything in the Player from launch is unknowable now.

 

[Antipodes]

Or they would have welcomed it as an awesome backup solution. Losing some functionality but all your tones are there.

I peronally would have liked that option - sort of like what you have with the Helix and the Stomp.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Big part of the problem is we know too much about how the sausage is made and how old the underlying algos are to not have a certain wave of push back on this.

 

[JiveTurkey]

HW in that vid: "Chill out Mr. Gold Supporting Member for 12 years"

My liking stands \m/

 

[norminal]

Good lord. This is definitely causing some push back in the bubble which gear forum members and GearTube watchers live in.

FTFY