Kemper Liquid Profiling First Look

[paisleywookiee]

I guess this seems cool, but is it too little, too late when my ToneX caps so far are deadnuts on? I guess if you want to do it all on-device, and/or have an all-in-one device. The minute Line 6 or FAS puts a NAM player block in their stuff, it'll be interesting (if that's possible).

 

[Whizzinby]

I’ve come around on this a little. Anything that makes the post-profile experience better is certainly a good thing. The most tiring thing about profilers is scouring through hundred of profiles to find the one or two that suits your setup. With this you could theoretically ballpark an amp and trust that you could tweak it from there.

Having said that, I can’t shake the feeling that if it’s requiring an underlying model to achieve this, I wish he’d just release those models so we could skip this whole profile business altogether. I mean why bother having to hunt for a profile at all if you have a perfectly good model that could be used to begin with. It’s adding a pointless step.

But I think this all falls back to the fact that profiling is largely only great if you’re wanting to capture your own amps. The value starts to fade from there.

I could totally see this as something that gets baked in to all capture based devices though eventually. It does make sense. It also seems like companies that already have huge libraries of models (Fractal and Line 6) would be in a pretty good position to do something similar if they ever decide to get into the capture game. They have all the models ready to go. (Which is likely thoroughly underselling the amount of work that Kemper probably had to do to get the two to work together)

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I guess this seems cool, but is it too little, too late when my ToneX caps so far are deadnuts on? I guess if you want to do it all on-device, and/or have an all-in-one device. The minute Line 6 or FAS puts a NAM player block in their stuff, it'll be interesting (if that's possible).

I’m in the same camp for the most part but since I still have my Kemper Stage I'm waiting to see if its a keeper. I put my TONEX pedal into a loop in the Stage. Set up a few performances with just Kemper effects and TONEX as the amp/cab and it is a really great rig.

if the Liquid Profile tone stack turns out to be more of a mere token than ‘next level’ update I imagine the Stage will be sold off. In terms of pure capturing an amp in a particular sweet spot TONEX rules but as a floor unit and affects the Stage is King. So Stage plus Tonex pedal is well worth the minimal effort to combine them if you already have them.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I’m in the same camp for the most part but since I still have my Kemper Stage I'm waiting to see if its a keeper. I put my TONEX pedal into a loop in the Stage. Set up a few performances with just Kemper effects and TONEX as the amp/cab and it is a really great rig.

if the Liquid Profile tone stack turns out to be more of a mere token than ‘next level’ update I imagine the Stage will be sold off. In terms of pure capturing an amp in a particular sweet spot TONEX rules but as a floor unit and affects the Stage is King. So Stage plus Tonex pedal is well worth the minimal effort to combine them if you already have them.

Makes sense, since you already have it. Otherwise, I'd think the ToneX pedal in the loop of an HX Effects would be the way to go.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I kinda like HW

 

[DrewJD82]

I kinda like HW

I’m convinced you have a handful of darts that are labeled “Like” and “Don’t Like”, but just throw them all at the dartboard at the same time and wherever they land, so be it.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I’m convinced you have a handful of darts that are labeled “Like” and “Don’t Like”, but just throw them all at the dartboard at the same time and wherever they land, so be it.

Nailed it!

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Makes sense, since you already have it. Otherwise, I'd think the ToneX pedal in the loop of an HX Effects would be the way to go.

I had it there but Friedman Little Sister borrowed it and won't give it back

Right now Tonex is on little board with Eventide H90 and controlling both with Luminite Graviton. Stage is getting nervous but I'm determined to give the LP a good go with Little sister as the target. That amp into Captor X and HX effects is really all I need but where's the fun in being content?!? It's a sickness!

 

[yeky83]

The i/view C.K did with T.J when it was pre-announced made it very clear that the whole gain and eq stack is component modeled.

I just automatically took that as being [at least] the entire Pre-amp and Eq stages ... the 2 videos in this threads OP back that up ... to my eyes at least :)

Ben

The Liquid Profile’s gain knob now models the effect of the bright cap. You’re welcome.

 

[Jarick]

Right. So... this is all what I'm extrapolating....

He says:

- Where you put the gain
- Where you put the eq

This does not imply that they've modelled various gain stages across all the different amps. All it implies is that the Kemper can now know where your analog controls were set to. As far as I can tell, he's talking purely about knob positioning. Not changes to the underlying algorithms within the Kemper.

IE: when you're selecting your "amp model" on the Kemper it isn't changing the nature of the Kemper's distortion. It's just switching the EQ block over to a modelled EQ.

In addition to this, you can tell the Kemper "I had my original knob values at these positions" and that will then apply the correct offset so that the values match up against your original amp.

That's exactly how I heard it all too. It's modeling the tone stack EQ, and it models the gain range of the original amp, but it's not changing the underlying amp model to add gain in a realistic manner.

So I can't take a profile of a Deluxe Reverb where the gain is on 3 and then turn the gain up to 8 and expect a realistic tone. I'll hear the same digital clipping as before. I can take a Deluxe Reverb where the bass is on 3 and treble on 6 and change that part of it, but not the gain. CK, HW, and MB all never spoke about adding gain to profiles, just changing the EQ and scaling the gain. Their example was a Deluxe Reverb will never go past about 5-6 on the Kemper gain knob, so now 10 on the gain knob is 6 internally.

For me, I'm not sure how much of a game changer that is, until I see and hear it. It's certainly much more helpful if you like a profile and want to tweak the tone stack EQ (the Vox is a good example of that), but it's trickier to virtually move the mic further away if it's too bassy, or again turn up the gain on a Plexi from 3 to 8, or even trickier, turn up the preamp gain and master of a JCM 800.

None of this is to take away what they are working on, or the value of Kemper. It's plug and play with the ability to tweak and get realistic outcomes. Even with the new cabs in Fractal or Helix, there are fewer options in moving from thousands of IR's to a handful of cabs and parameters, but it's still coming at it from an engineering side rather than a musical side. You're trying to figure out where to move the mics and mix to get the ideal tone, rather than going back to basics and thinking (I need more midrange so I can cut through the mix).

I still think that's an area of opportunity, and Kemper has a leg up there as there's fewer but more powerful parameters, and those may be if not easier to understand at least different enough to approach it in a more useful manner. So for example rather than trying to select a microphone and move it off axis and towards the speaker edge and blend a second mic and pull it back and play with high and low cuts and and and, you instead turn the definition control and adjust the low/high shift and the familiar BMTP post-EQ.

 

[Deadpan]

The Liquid Profile’s gain knob now models the effect of the bright cap. You’re welcome.

This is actually very cool.

 

[Jarick]

I kinda like HW

I think he's made a ton of useful content for the Kemper, much more information than anywhere else, with good video and sound clips. He's passionate about the Kemper which is nice for people that want to dive into that platform.

He's bounced around a lot in terms of his personality. Early on he was curious and liked to dive into things but was still somewhat chill. Then he created the HW persona and tried to crank up the enthusiasm and schtick in an over the top way, which was a big turn-off for a lot of folks. Now he's dialed it back a bit which is good.

I generally think it's best just to be yourself and be honest, so the closer he gets to that the better. Still appreciate the free content though.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I think he's made a ton of useful content for the Kemper, much more information than anywhere else, with good video and sound clips. He's passionate about the Kemper which is nice for people that want to dive into that platform.

He's bounced around a lot in terms of his personality. Early on he was curious and liked to dive into things but was still somewhat chill. Then he created the HW persona and tried to crank up the enthusiasm and schtick in an over the top way, which was a big turn-off for a lot of folks. Now he's dialed it back a bit which is good.

I generally think it's best just to be yourself and be honest, so the closer he gets to that the better. Still appreciate the free content though.

As you can imagine; I am 100% fine with his ramblings on (and off ) topics in videos

 

[Orvillain]

I don't mind him. He's far less offensive to my tastes than someone like Glenn Fricker.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

His creating a ‘H W‘ persona was annoying in a small way but, for me anyway, his passion has led to lots of useful content so I indulge in it like a guilty pleasure. ( It’s like Paul Rubens ‘PeeWee Herman’, a little creepy but entertaining)

Just the other day I stumbled upon a free TONEX creation of his that is ‘just right’. He calls it a ‘Monster’ amp.
If I remember correctly it is a complete matchless amp line out through a second power amp stage (Marshall variety?) then captured as a Tone Model.
I’ve been using a bank in TONEX pedal (3 presets) that starts with Studio Rats Matchless 35 as a cleanish amp and then two versions of HW’s Monster at progressively higher gain and I have spent hours enjoying that bank as if it was a real amp.
So for me long live the HW!

 

[paisleywookiee]

His creating a ‘H W‘ persona was annoying in a small way but, for me anyway, his passion has led to lots of useful content so I indulge in it like a guilty pleasure. ( It’s like Paul Rubens ‘PeeWee Herman’, a little creepy but entertaining)

Just the other day I stumbled upon a free TONEX creation of his that is ‘just right’. He calls it a ‘Monster’ amp.
If I remember correctly it is a complete matchless amp line out through a second power amp stage (Marshall variety?) then captured as a Tone Model.
I’ve been using a bank in TONEX pedal (3 presets) that starts with Studio Rats Matchless 35 as a cleanish amp and then two versions of HW’s Monster at progressively higher gain and I have spent hours enjoying that bank as if it was a real amp.
So for me long live the HW!

I would forgive him 50% if he started going by Jonathan, at least another 25% if he stopped wearing fucking Hawaiian shirts.

 

[texhex]

I would forgive him 50% if he started going by Jonathan, at least another 25% if he stopped wearing f*****g Hawaiian shirts.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I would forgive him 50% if he started going by Jonathan, at least another 25% if he stopped wearing f*****g Hawaiian shirts.

I see it as a coping mechanism to get past insecurity when putting yourself out for public consumption.
like when Miley Cyrus walks out naked but has to stick her tongue out sideways like a shield reflex to distract you lest you might find her naked body inferior.

 

[Jarick]

“Hello everyone, H W here! Or as some people like to call me, the Pee Wee Herman of Kemper!”

 

[Jarick]

Pretty sure HW was in marketing prior to doing content full time, so the shirt and the schtick and the monkey logo and everything is all marketing. To his credit it’s pretty identifiable.