KDH Putting in work (Victory Amps ownership)

[yeky83]

Can't feed a family of 4 on Fleshlights bruv. Trust me, I've tried.

Feed the family on fleshlights, nono, be the fleshlight your family needs.

 

[Orvillain]

I always get the feeling that KDH wants to be the guitarists' consumer rights advocate and white knight champion, crusading for Truth and Justice, but tends to come across as a shit-stirring wannabe dumpster-diving for anything that can be made to look vaguely suspect or salacious, before creating a whole non-existent drama out of something dull.

Hmmmmmm, wonder where we've seen that before!!!

 

[Achilles]

creating a whole non-existent drama out of something dull.

I watched it and the word dull nails the entire thing. File under WGAF?

 

[Devin]

Not that I've met him or have any real world experience with him, but Lee always comes across as a wholesome fellow to me

It was pretty cool watching him progress from a noobish player in the early videos to having some fairly competent blues rock improv chops today

 

[BahamaDada]

Honestly... Who the fuck cares.

If there's anyone to blame, then it is people mindlessly and blindly buying anything, that Andertons tests/adadvertises. They are sellers. They want to sell their stuff to you. Is there really anyone on the planet thinking that those are unbiased and objective reviews?

Remember Mesa CabClone? That's were I woke up about Andertons. The are not my friends, they are a company. And companies should NEVER BE YOU FRIEND. So I can't blame them per se. I don't know when, but at some points people have begun thinking of companies as their mates. And this is pretty unhealthy.

That said: I like Andertons TV a lot. I just try to think for myself, read between lines and make use of more than one outlet for finding/making an opinion. And first and foremost I use my ears. If it sounds shitty I can hear it myself and noone has to explain to me if something sounds good or not.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I always get the feeling that KDH wants to be the guitarists' consumer rights advocate and white knight champion, crusading for Truth and Justice, but tends to come across as a shit-stirring wannabe dumpster-diving for anything that can be made to look vaguely suspect or salacious, before creating a whole non-existent drama out of something dull.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Whizzinby]

Like I say, I really don’t give a shit if he owns the company or not. I wouldn’t avoid buying a Victory amp solely because of Lee’s ownership. I’ve been interested in trying both a Sheriff and Kraken throughout the years and I wouldn’t avoid trying either because of Lee.

That said, where I do find this mildly interesting (from a slow gear-news perspective) is the intersection of GearTube with the broader market. Obviously, only a dolt would deny the marketing impact of GearTube or allow a videos to make gear purchasing decisions for them. But, the lengths to which they went to deny his ownership stake over a ten year period, highlights the power of being able to attempt to “organically” place the amps on their various channels, while leveraging their own in-house influencers for signature amps, all while obscuring his affiliation with the entire thing. There are reasons why most platforms and consumers want affiliations and paid content disclosed, precisely to avoid these types of below ground marketing schemes.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Does Andertons own Victory?

If some customers feel that they don't care about bias in recommendations have been withheld then that's their right. But it's not their right to insult others who feel differently. There are agreed standards of conduct in this area and the facts still emerging should be the only fair basis for...

www.thegearpage.net

Wow. People really need to get outside and get some fresh air. While it's a topic worthy of discussion, people are taking shit WAY too seriously.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Like I say, I really don’t give a shit if he owns the company or not. I wouldn’t avoid buying a Victory amp solely because of Lee’s ownership. I’ve been interested in trying both a Sheriff and Kraken throughout the years and I wouldn’t avoid trying either because of Lee.

That said, where I do find this mildly interesting (from a slow gear-news perspective) is the intersection of GearTube with the broader market. Obviously, only a dolt would deny the marketing impact of GearTube or allow a videos to make gear purchasing decisions for them. But, the lengths to which they went to deny his ownership stake over a ten year period, highlights the power of being able to attempt to “organically” place the amps on their various channels, while leveraging their own in-house influencers for signature amps, all while obscuring his affiliation with the entire thing. There are reasons why most platforms and consumers want affiliations and paid content disclosed, precisely to avoid these types of below ground marketing schemes.

The flip side of that coin is that rather than clarifying things, full disclosure would have just muddied the waters and made everyone (as they are now) declare "Anderton's owns Victory!". The "hiding" may have been simply as the easiest way to avoid confusing it as an "Anderton's brand". The asshat Rob Chapman quote in the video is a prime example: "My best friend is the owner!!!" If you've ever been on a board or partnered with even 4 people, let alone 9, you know how absurd that characterization is. And now there's the stupid thread on TGP: "Does Anderton's own Victory?!?!?"

The personality-focus of the Victory Amp brand is clearly (and deservedly) Martin Kidd. It's at least as plausible that the "hiding" was more a function of making sure that Martin Kidd was seen as the brand's heart-and-soul. And he clearly is from a design/function/feature perspective. Rather than trying to hide the fact that Lee has a SLIGHTLY higher vested interest in the sales of Victory amps than he does all the other brands carried by Andertons.

 

[FuzzyAce]

The one thing I learned from all this is that Martin Kidd was responsible for Cornford amps. I was not up on their history or have followed much on Victory besides what I've heard online. Makes sense that Guthrie uses them.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

The one thing I learned from all this is that Martin Kidd was responsible for Cornford amps. I was not up on their history or have followed much on Victory besides what I've heard online. Makes sense that Guthrie uses them.

I always wanted a Cornford Mk50 ii. Definitely a bucket list amp for me

 

[FuzzyAce]

I always wanted a Cornford Mk50 ii. Definitely a bucket list amp for me

Never had the chance to try one myself, although I always enjoyed the tones Guthrie and Howe were getting from theirs.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Never had the chance to try one myself, although I always enjoyed the tones Guthrie and Howe were getting from theirs.

I've played two and bloody loved them.

 

[Jarick]

That said: I like Andertons TV a lot. I just try to think for myself, read between lines and make use of more than one outlet for finding/making an opinion. And first and foremost I use my ears. If it sounds shitty I can hear it myself and noone has to explain to me if something sounds good or not.

Andertons was definitely a pioneer in YouTube (for better or worse) for guitar gear. In the early YT days, gear videos were basically guys putting a camera in the corner and blowing out the camera mic with volume. Andertons actually had some production value, and really started to make entertaining videos. The "Sound Like" and blindfold video series were all pretty cool, and to an extent it predated the "influencer" type videos that is basically flooding the app today.

Like I say, I really don’t give a shit if he owns the company or not. I wouldn’t avoid buying a Victory amp solely because of Lee’s ownership. I’ve been interested in trying both a Sheriff and Kraken throughout the years and I wouldn’t avoid trying either because of Lee.

That said, where I do find this mildly interesting (from a slow gear-news perspective) is the intersection of GearTube with the broader market. Obviously, only a dolt would deny the marketing impact of GearTube or allow a videos to make gear purchasing decisions for them. But, the lengths to which they went to deny his ownership stake over a ten year period, highlights the power of being able to attempt to “organically” place the amps on their various channels, while leveraging their own in-house influencers for signature amps, all while obscuring his affiliation with the entire thing. There are reasons why most platforms and consumers want affiliations and paid content disclosed, precisely to avoid these types of below ground marketing schemes.

What's interesting to me is how some people get borderline tribal about their social media consumption. Like Andertons is a "shill" but someone like Pete Thorn isn't (although 99% of his channel is advertisements). Or Tone Junkie and others.

I'm mostly interested in entertaining and informational content, regardless of advertising. I don't watch much of Andertons nowadays, but that's mostly because I don't have the patience to sit through hour long gear demos with intermittent noodling.

 

[Whizzinby]

The flip side of that coin is that rather than clarifying things, full disclosure would have just muddied the waters and made everyone (as they are now) declare "Anderton's owns Victory!". The "hiding" may have been simply as the easiest way to avoid confusing it as an "Anderton's brand".

That’s kind of the point though. It’s only muddy because they wanted to leverage Andertons while obscuring Andertons involvement.

Victory did three signature amps for influencers that were on the Andertons payroll, so it’s hard to say it isnt (to some degree) an Andertons brand, unless that just so happens to be a coincidence who they chose to work with. (Noting that “they” is, in part, Lee lol)

“I don’t want to confuse anyone with my involvement” Well are you involved? “Yeah, but that’s what’s confusing”

The personality-focus of the Victory Amp brand is clearly (and deservedly) Martin Kidd. It's at least as plausible that the "hiding" was more a function of making sure that Martin Kidd was seen as the brand's heart-and-soul. And he clearly is from a design/function/feature perspective. Rather than trying to hide the fact that Lee has a SLIGHTLY higher vested interest in the sales of Victory amps than he does all the other brands carried by Andertons.

He certainly gives the company credibility, and allows their amps to be judged on their own merits. Like I say, I would have no probably buying a Victory amp specifically because of the guy designing the amps. (And them being reasonably priced, available, etc.) It’s just the marketing smoke and mirrors angle that is mildly interesting to me, given the impact GearTube has on the market.

 

[Achilles]

What's interesting to me is how some people get borderline tribal about their social media consumption.

Yes, unlike how they are with their favorite gear. I actually stumbled over a pretty recent (short hair) Pete Thorn 'unboxing' video. The guy has officially jumped the shark.

 

[laxu]

The personality-focus of the Victory Amp brand is clearly (and deservedly) Martin Kidd. It's at least as plausible that the "hiding" was more a function of making sure that Martin Kidd was seen as the brand's heart-and-soul. And he clearly is from a design/function/feature perspective. Rather than trying to hide the fact that Lee has a SLIGHTLY higher vested interest in the sales of Victory amps than he does all the other brands carried by Andertons.

Agreed. On a few NAMM videos where he's interviewed about his amps, he seems like such a soft-spoken and chill dude.

Now I'm missing the Victory VC35 Copper I had. I only sold it because I knew I could not use it properly for several years.

 

[paisleywookiee]

That’s kind of the point though. It’s only muddy because they wanted to leverage Andertons while obscuring Andertons involvement.

Victory did three signature amps for influencers that were on the Andertons payroll, so it’s hard to say it isnt (to some degree) an Andertons brand, unless that just so happens to be a coincidence who they chose to work with. (Noting that “they” is, in part, Lee lol)

“I don’t want to confuse anyone with my involvement” Well are you involved? “Yeah, but that’s what’s confusing”




He certainly gives the company credibility, and allows their amps to be judged on their own merits. Like I say, I would have no probably buying a Victory amp specifically because of the guy designing the amps. (And them being reasonably priced, available, etc.) It’s just the marketing smoke and mirrors angle that is mildly interesting to me, given the impact GearTube has on the market.

What’s the fix then? “Victory by Andertons”? That would be too much, since there are eight other investors. Perhaps a blurb on their website?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

That’s kind of the point though. It’s only muddy because they wanted to leverage Andertons while obscuring Andertons involvement.

Victory did three signature amps for influencers that were on the Andertons payroll, so it’s hard to say it isnt (to some degree) an Andertons brand, unless that just so happens to be a coincidence who they chose to work with. (Noting that “they” is, in part, Lee lol)

“I don’t want to confuse anyone with my involvement” Well are you involved? “Yeah, but that’s what’s confusing”




He certainly gives the company credibility, and allows their amps to be judged on their own merits. Like I say, I would have no probably buying a Victory amp specifically because of the guy designing the amps. (And them being reasonably priced, available, etc.) It’s just the marketing smoke and mirrors angle that is mildly interesting to me, given the impact GearTube has on the market.

I don't follow the logic here: if having folks associated with Andertons as sig artists makes it an Anderton's brand then where was the obfuscation?

I try to play this out in terms of "what if Lee was never involved, but nonetheless Victory amps still had 9 partners to fully fund the venture with Martin Kidd on as designer and Face of The Brand, and Guthrie Govan on as a sig artist. What would have happened?" It might not have grown to the extent that it did, or as quickly as it did, but I'm pretty sure they would have done alright based on that pedigree and that endorsement. Also pretty sure we still would have had an Anderton's video interviewing Martin Kidd about the amp models, and given that they are a UK brand and have at least some amps that fit parts of the market not really met by other amps (with the pedal-platform nature of the V40 being one that Anderton's needs for a lot of its videos) I bet they might still have gotten a decent showing in the Anderton's backline.

 

[paisleywookiee]

I don't follow the logic here: if having folks associated with Andertons as sig artists makes it an Anderton's brand then where was the obfuscation?

I try to play this out in terms of "what if Lee was never involved, but nonetheless Victory amps still had 9 partners to fully fund the venture with Martin Kidd on as designer and Face of The Brand, and Guthrie Govan on as a sig artist. What would have happened?" It might not have grown to the extent that it did, or as quickly as it did, but I'm pretty sure they would have done alright based on that pedigree and that endorsement. Also pretty sure we still would have had an Anderton's video interviewing Martin Kidd about the amp models, and given that they are a UK brand and have at least some amps that fit parts of the market not really met by other amps (with the pedal-platform nature of the V40 being one that Anderton's needs for a lot of its videos) I bet they might still have gotten a decent showing in the Anderton's backline.

We already know what would happen. Cornford. They had Guthrie and Richie Kotzen, were amazing amps, and yet they failed.