It finally happened.

ian_dissonance said:
If the drummer or the vocalist wanted to carry my shit and run the laptop they could do a show without me. I’ve seen “bands” where it’s a vocalist and an iPod, or a guitar player and a drum machine and a bunch of playback, and they put on killer shows.
Click to expand...

Yeah, totally sounds like a "hardcore" act.
 
ian_dissonance said:
Nope, just the last one.
Click to expand...

Ok. I can perfectly see how that kinda sound could become an issue live. And no, I would never run than kinda bass through what would basically be my guitar rig.
But still, I don't think buying two cheap combos would be a decent solution at all. I'd rather keep using the guitar through your EVs, do some monitor EQ-ing, separate the bass and have it run through a decent amp if you really need to partially supply the room sound as well. Would defenitely not go for something such as the Fender Rumble. They're downright amazing amps (possibly the most astonishing bass amps I came across in quite a while) but IMO simply too lightweight to support that kinda low end you folks apparently are going for.
For the same reason (being low-endish and rather massive) I can perfectly understand that even decent FR systems such as your EVs are not working too well anymore. With all that bass going through them, plus your low tuned guitar, I don't think they're providing enough "stable" low end support. Might work in case there's a decent PA in a great sounding room, but not in case they also need to support the house sound.
 
I'd sincerely love to see the audience in a show like this if you rolled up with like a Matamp or my old Orange AD140 and a couple of 412s and played something like that at volume. You probably wouldn't have a hard time cutting through. Or sterilizing the audience with SPLs :satan
 
Sascha Franck said:
Ok. I can perfectly see how that kinda sound could become an issue live. And no, I would never run than kinda bass through what would basically be my guitar rig.
But still, I don't think buying two cheap combos would be a decent solution at all. I'd rather keep using the guitar through your EVs, do some monitor EQ-ing, separate the bass and have it run through a decent amp if you really need to partially supply the room sound as well. Would defenitely not go for something such as the Fender Rumble. They're downright amazing amps (possibly the most astonishing bass amps I came across in quite a while) but IMO simply too lightweight to support that kinda low end you folks apparently are going for.
For the same reason (being low-endish and rather massive) I can perfectly understand that even decent FR systems such as your EVs are not working too well anymore. With all that bass going through them, plus your low tuned guitar, I don't think they're providing enough "stable" low end support. Might work in case there's a decent PA in a great sounding room, but not in case they also need to support the house sound.
Click to expand...
I’m also trying to cut down on the cabling/routing/etc. I’m also kind of thinking maybe a high wattage rack amp in our IEM rack and then a 2x12 and a 4x10 bass cab so I only have to run the guitar to the rack and then speaker cables out to the amps. The guitar, even as low tuned as it is, isn’t really pushing anything below 80hz.
 
pipelineaudio said:
In reality. People always act like speakers are some black magic we can’t predict with nearly 100% accuracy. Will an alto or headrush 10 do it? No, but a Meyer MJS would decimate a 2x12 guitar amp
Click to expand...
It’s not black magic, it’s shit acoustics, preset crossovers, and dense tones. EQ doesn’t fix all of those things, and when you’re fighting all of them you gotta pick your battles of importance, especially when you have no control over the environment and you’re doing shows with no early load in or sound check.
 
ian_dissonance said:
It’s not black magic, it’s shit acoustics, preset crossovers, and dense tones. EQ doesn’t fix all of those things, and when you’re fighting all of them you gotta pick your battles of importance, especially when you have no control over the environment and you’re doing shows with no early load in or sound check.
Click to expand...

Many of these issues are akin to crossover distortion. If it were audible, it would be HORRIBLE, but in any mic preamp in the last 50 years, the nominal level is so ridiculously above the audible level of the crossover distortion that it doesn't matter. A good two way will have more than enough power to deal, electronically with any measurable spec when comparing with a 2x12 guitar cab and still be far louder.
 
AFKAEjay(retired) said:
If a couple of people with amps/drumkit/vocal mic can’t make it sound good without a PA…nothing is gonna save them.

I know how it can go…but don’t let incompetence downplay a perfectly fine method…Don’t play too loud, don’t aim your amp in the mic or grandma’s hearing device. For non silent approaches: make it sound great/balanced on stage…and the PA guy will have an easy job.

I do it, and see it done all the time with good results. Last gig was at a club, acoustic lively room, concert setup for 60/80 people shutting their mouths, bluesy gig and some soultunes….The unmiced acoustic piano set the volume bar…and the band sounded great with only a vocal mic.
And I was playing 2 tube amps in a stereo setup…aimed at the right places…with the volume knob at appropriate setting. If I was to crank it cause “that’s my sound”…that would have been my last call for that gig.
Click to expand...
Certainly .... for a jazz band or blues this can work. Metal? Not so much.
ian_dissonance said:
The questions here is not “how to play loud music more quietly to maintain a comfortable volume level”? The questions is “what $300-$500 combo amp is gonna rip some dicks off in a sweaty dive that devours midrange?”.
Click to expand...
Ok, if that is genuinely your wish (so glad I don't gig with you or have to be in the same room as your band), I would go with one of several 2x12 combo amps mentioned used as you might be able to get in under your pitiful budget. I imagine your guitar cost 4 times that, but .... whatever.
ian_dissonance said:
I know how EQ works, I know how volume works, I know that I’m not going to ask the drummer to “dial it back” for this kind of music.

WHAT AFFORDABLE COMBO AMPS ARE LOUD AS FUCK?

That is the question.

If your response is anything other than an answer to that question you’re not being helpful here. This isn’t an adult contemporary rock gig at a diner. We’re not a jazz band. Drums playing softer is not how this music works, contrary to whatever your X years of professionally being quiet tell you.
Click to expand...
Good metal depends predominantly on HUGE bottom end all the way around. If you don't have THAT, tons of midrange guitar isn't going to help you. Putting your guitar and bass through a single amp is crazy ..... for a number of reasons. The bass in a metal band needs to be WAY louder than those cheep speakers you are using are EVER going to get. It also needs to be MUCH tighter and go through speakers that can push low frequencies well.
mbenigni said:
Won't argue on aesthetics; FR's aren't very metal. Then again... is an EV ZLX12P?

As for sound and functionality, having used both, I wouldn't be inclined to call them the same thing at all. But I'm not trying to push an agenda here. It sounds to me like you need a good 2x12 cab and power amp.
Click to expand...
Would work well I agree, but likely out of budget don't you think?
ian_dissonance said:
I’d like to point out that I’m not looking for “good” sound, I’m looking for a moderately light box with a loud ass power amp. Nothing is going to sound good in these spaces at performance volume. I appreciate the (relevant) input.
Click to expand...
... and again, you expect us to take your request seriously?

1) Metal Band
2) Bass and guitar going through same speakers
3) Budget $500
4) Loud as fk
5) Don't care if it sounds good

You are correct, nothing is going to sound good in these spaces (or any other space) the way your band is setup using the gear you are using.

Just get a good Mesa Triple Rectifier and a 4x12 cab (way out of your budget) and get your bass player a Fender Rumble combo. Your audience will thank you.
 
OneEng said:
Certainly .... for a jazz band or blues this can work. Metal? Not so much.

Ok, if that is genuinely your wish (so glad I don't gig with you or have to be in the same room as your band), I would go with one of several 2x12 combo amps mentioned used as you might be able to get in under your pitiful budget. I imagine your guitar cost 4 times that, but .... whatever.

Good metal depends predominantly on HUGE bottom end all the way around. If you don't have THAT, tons of midrange guitar isn't going to help you. Putting your guitar and bass through a single amp is crazy ..... for a number of reasons. The bass in a metal band needs to be WAY louder than those cheep speakers you are using are EVER going to get. It also needs to be MUCH tighter and go through speakers that can push low frequencies well.

Would work well I agree, but likely out of budget don't you think?

... and again, you expect us to take your request seriously?

1) Metal Band
2) Bass and guitar going through same speakers
3) Budget $500
4) Loud as fk
5) Don't care if it sounds good

You are correct, nothing is going to sound good in these spaces (or any other space) the way your band is setup using the gear you are using.

Just get a good Mesa Triple Rectifier and a 4x12 cab (way out of your budget) and get your bass player a Fender Rumble combo. Your audience will thank you.
Click to expand...
The plan is to separate the bass and guitar, right now they’re basically running through our whole practice PA. And you enjoyment of loud music is totally irrelevant, it’s also very dissonant and atonal, so probably even further from your enjoyment. And the vocalist screams 90% of the time and the drummer rimshots the snare on pretty much every hit. Y’all keep finding parts of the equation you don’t like and going from there. Just find another thread.
 
That’s not a genre I follow at all so I’m completely clueless about what a typical rig would be, but I do know that a combo amp is absolutely the wrong tool for that particular job-no matter how powerful it is. I would think that a powered sub or two would be the best approach, because they’re designed specifically to provide that low frequency content at high SPLs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
A/B - C/D pedal: does it exist?
Replies
3
Views
414
DrewJD82
DrewJD82
DLC86
SKNote/RedSound Sublymia
Replies
8
Views
920
Cirrus
Cirrus
aflynt
Running modelers through backline amps
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
aflynt
aflynt
Jarick
Interesting rigs from a metal show last night
Replies
7
Views
647
Whizzinby
Whizzinby
M
IK Multimedia Tone X One?
24 25 26
Replies
517
Views
45K
norminal
norminal
Back
Top