It don’t matter cause the audience can’t tell the difference..

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In a philosophical sense, even if I that doesn’t have an audience create and play music mainly for my own amusement there’s always a part of my brain that whispers to me.
“Will they think this sound good”
So unintentionally there’s a need or wish that what I do is acknowledged in some way or another.

There you go, the Swedes take on this from a psychological and philosophical sense.

Chew on it morons, and ponder over your inner artist soul that wants to burst out and be naked, running through a blossoming field like a rabbit picking up the smell of a young pointy eared girl rabbit, while tossing paint on a empty canvas and hoping everyone will understand when you’re gone.
 
spawnofthesith said:
My interpretation of the OP is that there doesn’t “need” to be some sort of “race to the bottom” just because the audience “doesn’t care”

Of course, if one’s $200 all on rig gets the job done and they’re happy with it, more power to them

But I also don’t think the weekly tiggers/wedding band grinders are doing that anyway :idk
Click to expand...

I know that's what he meant. That's why I mentioned the guitar player for Taylor Swift. Or a band like Metallica.

Their shows just don't hinge/depend on the minutia of the guitar tone. So in that sense, they are actually CORRECT to say that their audience don't care about what rig they're using. Are they racing to the bottom? Absolutely not. These are as far from the bottom as you can possibly be. Impeccable, multi-million dollar productions.

Have you ever been to a Rammstein show? Paul Landers uses a SansAmp. Here's a picture I took the last time I saw them:




Dp you think they were racing to the bottom there? Please.

Some audiences are not guitar tone oriented. That's all.

A guy like Eric Johnson on the other hand, does play for an audience that largely cares about his tone/rig, so he brings the A rig every time. His audience does not care about lights/dancers/fire so he does not bring any of that.

The wedding band guitar player knows that unwinding the Super Lead in the banquet hall and blowing the bride's mom wig clean off will get him an 1-star review on Yelp really quick. So he takes the modeler to the gig. Rightly so.

My band... we market ourselves as an old school, loud. hard rock band. Amps are definitely part of that. So I took my Super Lead to the gig tonight. It went great.
That said, we carefully look for venues and audiences that want that. I have NO problems passing on a gig that I feel wouldn't be a good fit for us, hell I'll even recommend a friend's band that is more appropriate for that gig.

It's called "knowing your audience". And it's the exact opposite of racing to the bottom.
 
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GuitarBilly74 said:
I know that's what he meant. That's why I mentioned the guitar player for Taylor Swift. Or a band like Metallica.

Their shows just don't hinge/depend on the minutia of the guitar tone. So in that sense, they are actually CORRECT to say that their audience don't care about what rig they're using. Are they racing to the bottom? Absolutely not. These are as far from the bottom as you can possibly be. Impeccable, multi-million dollar productions.

Have you ever been to a Rammstein show? Paul Landers uses a SansAmp. Here's a picture I took the last time I saw them:




Dp you think they were racing to the bottom there? Please.

Some audiences are not guitar tone oriented. That's all.

A guy like Eric Johnson on the other hand, does play for an audience that largely cares about his tone/rig, so he brings the A rig every time. His audience does not care about lights/dancers/fire so he does not bring any of that.

It's called "knowing your audience". And it's the exact opposite of racing to the bottom.
Click to expand...


i think a lot of it too is crafting that audience by doing what you do. i mean- to me, the vaster majority of musical creation is discernment- where and what to play or not- and regardless- people either dig your take or don't.

in the grander context of big successful bands- youre fulfilling that vision of what people expect, and i think thats why some folks have resisted fame even once they have it, cause it kinda institutionalizes what you did. in the instance that you have a 'thing' like elements of your sound that are instantly recognizable.. the artist made that, and so thats their cultural cache as much as the song, and that biz is indivisible.

as a covers guy , you're borrowing those aspects, and i get why youd dial in 'Brown Sound' or 'Jerry Tone' or 'Woman Tone' or 'Knopfler Strat' preset. cause you're pinching that stuff to elicit a response. but thats artistry of a different type- thats being a sorta chameleon.

the worry, at some point, is that you lose your voice entirely and become a jukebox for other people in EITHER sitch. id imagine the saddest place to be would be working hard your whole life to make great records and then dialing in your own named tonal preset on a helix to play shows.

all im sayin is, art stops being art when you check out and you ONLY just fulfill your obligations to the audience- cause you dont wanna be exclusively a tone museum unless thats your goal- but thats different than making art.
 
newholland said:
the worry, at some point, is that you lose your voice entirely and become a jukebox for other people in EITHER sitch. id imagine the saddest place to be would be working hard your whole life to make great records and then dialing in your own named tonal preset on a helix to play shows.
Click to expand...
I totally get this. Being a human jukebox is not something I have any interest in doing.

But sometimes the mid-volume jukebox IS what the event needs. And if the venue chooses to hire a band to do that instead of just running the Bluetooth player? More power to them. Giving a job to fellow musicians.
I think a bigger problem would be if these venues decided that the solution for quieter music would be cutting out live music entirely. That would hurt working musicians more than "hey, watch your levels, people are having dinner"

I DON'T want to play that type of gig, so I just don't. But I don't look down at those who do it. It's honest, hard work and it's certainly not the "bottom". Just not MY thing. :idk
 
GuitarBilly74 said:
I totally get this. Being a human jukebox is not something I have any interest in doing.

But sometimes the mid-volume jukebox IS what the event needs. And if the venue chooses to hire a band to do that instead of just running the Bluetooth player? More power to them. Giving a job to fellow musicians.
I think a bigger problem would be if these venues decided that the solution for quieter music would be cutting out live music entirely. That would hurt working musicians more than "hey, watch your levels, people are having dinner"

I DON'T want to play that type of gig, so I just don't. But I don't look down at those who do it. It's honest, hard work and it's certainly not the "bottom". Just not MY thing. :idk
Click to expand...

nah exactly. theres no shame in doing that kinda playing at all and those dudes are still bringin it daily, and ive learned more from those dudes over the years than a lotta the self taught artists cause they DO work constantly and adapt to SO many sitches. the genius is in their adaptability and understanding the craft so well that its intuitive when they haveta tweak something to make it work effortlessly. THATs what i mean moreso than anything about ignoring the audience- the audience is the audience- but being a master of getting your musical point across in the context of the current musical setting.. phoo.. we all should aspire to THAT!
 
newholland said:
the worry, at some point, is that you lose your voice entirely and become a jukebox for other people in EITHER sitch. id imagine the saddest place to be would be working hard your whole life to make great records and then dialing in your own named tonal preset on a helix to play shows.

all im sayin is, art stops being art when you check out and you ONLY just fulfill your obligations to the audience- cause you dont wanna be exclusively a tone museum unless thats your goal- but thats different than making art.
Click to expand...
I remember I went to see Smashing Pumpkins in San Francisco around 2012. They had just released the Oceania album and I think Billy Corgan said on stage something like "What other bands play their whole new album live?!" which is exciting for the band. Oceania has some good stuff on it for sure, but I can bet most people that came to the gig wanted to hear their old hits.

Similarly you could think of e.g Load/Reload era Metallica where their sound was a lot more hard rock than metal, so people were saying "That's not Metallica!" I don't think you can really win this sort of audience expectation of a band not evolving, whether it's in terms of songwriting or tone. It's better to do the Mike Patton thing and have a bunch of bands that let you do something very different from your "main" band.

I do think the audience cares about the sound - but in a different way. They are going to be annoyed if they didn't hear the vocals or instruments clearly where they were standing, or everything was extremely loud, mixed poorly etc. But they aren't going to care that you turned up to a gig with a Boss delay instead of a Strymon.

As an audience member I've never thought "I wish that band had used a Mesa instead of an Orange". But as a guitarist I've been annoyed by pop gigs where I can see there's a guitarist on stage playing, but I can't hear them because they are barely in the mix.

All the tone stuff is for you. I find that I'm the happiest when I don't think about tone. It just sounds right, I can just rock out and play my best. For cover band stuff you obviously have to get some of the things right, like if a song has a flanger it would be weird to play it without one, but it doesn't matter if it's dialed exactly like the song or is the particular model the artist used. I think even as a listener covers can be more fun if they don't sound exactly like the original artist as long as the playing is good.
 
laxu said:
I remember I went to see Smashing Pumpkins in San Francisco around 2012. They had just released the Oceania album and I think Billy Corgan said on stage something like "What other bands play their whole new album live?!" which is exciting for the band. Oceania has some good stuff on it for sure, but I can bet most people that came to the gig wanted to hear their old hits.

Similarly you could think of e.g Load/Reload era Metallica where their sound was a lot more hard rock than metal, so people were saying "That's not Metallica!" I don't think you can really win this sort of audience expectation of a band not evolving, whether it's in terms of songwriting or tone. It's better to do the Mike Patton thing and have a bunch of bands that let you do something very different from your "main" band.

I do think the audience cares about the sound - but in a different way. They are going to be annoyed if they didn't hear the vocals or instruments clearly where they were standing, or everything was extremely loud, mixed poorly etc. But they aren't going to care that you turned up to a gig with a Boss delay instead of a Strymon.

As an audience member I've never thought "I wish that band had used a Mesa instead of an Orange". But as a guitarist I've been annoyed by pop gigs where I can see there's a guitarist on stage playing, but I can't hear them because they are barely in the mix.

All the tone stuff is for you. I find that I'm the happiest when I don't think about tone. It just sounds right, I can just rock out and play my best. For cover band stuff you obviously have to get some of the things right, like if a song has a flanger it would be weird to play it without one, but it doesn't matter if it's dialed exactly like the song or is the particular model the artist used. I think even as a listener covers can be more fun if they don't sound exactly like the original artist as long as the playing is good.
Click to expand...

i agree with you on almost every point save for that bands shouldnt expand on their sound from the 'art evolves' perspective. i get the sales portion.. you sell to people expecting a thing. but, i also think that destroys artists and art, and why we're where we're at.

but thats not about tone at all :D thats commerce versus art.
 
Hmm, my band plays in C Standard and Drop Bb, and it's possible we're the loudest band among our rather large groups of peers, at least we're known for leaving a certain "impression".

On the other hand, besides a change in response/"feel" that most of the audience doesn't notice (I do, but I'd say it's marginal), it won't really matter if I show up with my Helix Floor or my pedalboard.

Pedalboard definitely has a bit more low-end "thump" than the Helix. That said, I'm planning for another extensive session of A/B blind tests in the near future, to try and further minimize the sonic differences.
 
There’s like four, maybe five people in here making art instead of performing audience-tested music, lo (probably an exaggeration, shut up nerd). People heading down to get shitfaced and hear some covers do not give two shits what amp you’re playing, what drums you have, etc. They honestly don’t even care if you play song right as long as it’s close enough to be recognizable. Tools for creation aren’t always the appropriate tools for reproduction.
 
ian_dissonance said:
There’s like four, maybe five people in here making art instead of performing audience-tested music, lo (probably an exaggeration, shut up nerd). People heading down to get shitfaced and hear some covers do not give two shits what amp you’re playing, what drums you have, etc. They honestly don’t even care if you play song right as long as it’s close enough to be recognizable. Tools for creation aren’t always the appropriate tools for reproduction.
Click to expand...

be hard pressed to disagree, but its way more interesting if the players are invested in making it sound good and to whatever extent they can their own, yeah?
 
ian_dissonance said:
There’s like four, maybe five people in here making art instead of performing audience-tested music, lo (probably an exaggeration, shut up nerd). People heading down to get shitfaced and hear some covers do not give two shits what amp you’re playing, what drums you have, etc. They honestly don’t even care if you play song right as long as it’s close enough to be recognizable. Tools for creation aren’t always the appropriate tools for reproduction.
Click to expand...

And a bunch of dentists, lawyers and other overpaid people
 
paisleywookiee said:
I notice the audience really gets restless when I don’t run my JCM800/SLO patch with stereo delay and reverb mixed in parallel, with Uncle Leon’s Famous Micropitch block. We gotta serve the song AND the audience, guys. I ABX’d it, and it’s true.
Click to expand...

If they detect even the slightest hint of aliasing, your ass is toast. You’ll never get booked back into that venue.
 
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