It’s not the modeler…it’s something else that determines the endresult.

[Digital Igloo]

Ya know, with all the advertising and all the word of mouth about modelers, you can't expect the general public to know better.
Ads for the modelers don't mention playback systems. They don't tell you that after you spend almost 2 grand on your modeler,
that you need to spend 1/2 or 2/3s that amount on a good playback system...

Is it unrealistic for some of that to ask that be told also?

Oh, you're absolutely right; we all have to start somewhere. The problem arises when the exact same exchange happens over and over and over, and a hundred Facebook posters who do know better (because they've seen the above exchange over and over and over) never seem to ask the one question that matters most:

"What's your playback system?"

 

[pipelineaudio]

Semmoliers often act like speakers need to cost a fortune to sound good...And in this case "good" isn;t really what you may be after.

I can tell you that 300 dollar or whatever Alto 10's sound extremely close to my studio monitors in terms of the guitar tone, just louder. I keep hearing how we need to spend 1500 dollars on "FRFR"'s but when I try them, they really don't sound any closer to my studio monitors

 

[Sascha Franck]

I can tell you that 300 dollar or whatever Alto 10's sound extremely close to my studio monitors in terms of the guitar tone, just louder. I keep hearing how we need to spend 1500 dollars on "FRFR"'s but when I try them, they really don't sound any closer to my studio monitors

I would second that for the most part, especially given I've done quite some direct comparisons myself, but there seem to be two things that might still be more likely to happen with cheaper monitors:

1) Sort of "strange" directivity (or even phasing) likely caused by the 2-way design. Seems to get better when I place my TS310 upright, so things are lined up vertically. Too bad as wedge positioning is usually more practical.

2) Dynamic impact. Last summer I played a gig where I had the option to switch between my Alto and a spare RCF the keyboarder brought (don't know the model top of my head but could find out) even while playing (brought an A/B box). Now, the difference really didn't seem to be frequency related at all, but there's been a certain direct impact all over the frequency range that just made things cut through better. Likely not enough to justify the price (2-3 times as much as the Alto), still definitely noticeable.
And well, that's something no frequency chart is telling you anything about.

 

[Sascha Franck]

"What's your playback system?"

That and "Let's set your expectations straight!"
Personally, due to being familiar with some concepts for a long time already, I knew from the first moment what I would get (and what I would *not* get) when I went all in on the modeling side of things. That certainly helped a lot to "shape" my expectations. I have never once expected the equivalent of a fullstack listening experience and you will hardly find me to ever complain about any lack of an "amp in the room" experience (in fact, I usually find amps in the room to sound way less than shiny - if it was "big stack on an open air stage" we might perhaps be talking...). And it's really not because I'm such a clever dude (which I obviously am, hrrrhrrr...) but solely because I knew what to expect.

 

[Stone]

"What's your playback system?"

A Pair of Line6 Powercabs, gets me the sound /tone i want in my room, Sure i had a pair of Headrush "FRFR"-108's yes they are budget but they sounded good for the price, but my Powercabs are much better

 

[ragingplatypi]

I’ve been fascinated by the problem of the playback system for a while. There are so many conflicting needs for each player and playing scenario.

I currently have 3 playback systems- high end headphones, a high end stereo system, and an open back 1x10 combo amp with an effects loop. They each have their purpose, and their own strengths and weaknesses.

I’m starting to realize playback systems are like guitars. At any given time I have 4 different guitars, each offering something different (single coils, humbuckers, acoustic, different scale lengths). Ideally I will have 3-4 playback systems allowing me silence for nighttime, accuracy for recording, loudness for gigs, and the guitar amp experience.

 

[laxu]

I’ve been fascinated by the problem of the playback system for a while. There are so many conflicting needs for each player and playing scenario.

I currently have 3 playback systems- high end headphones, a high end stereo system, and an open back 1x10 combo amp with an effects loop. They each have their purpose, and their own strengths and weaknesses.

I’m starting to realize playback systems are like guitars. At any given time I have 4 different guitars, each offering something different (single coils, humbuckers, acoustic, different scale lengths). Ideally I will have 3-4 playback systems allowing me silence for nighttime, accuracy for recording, loudness for gigs, and the guitar amp experience.

I understand having headphones, studio monitors and maybe a "FRFR" setup or poweramp + guitar cab for live use. But each of those needs to be quality stuff if you want the best sound out of them.

I see output systems as "buy good once, keep for decades" stuff so higher prices for higher quality are warranted. Not necessarily buying the most expensive, highest end unit out there but just better than the bargain basement stuff.

 

[Orvillain]

"What's your playback system?"

A potato of course! High quality!

 

[Alex Kenivel]

A potato of course! High quality!

My Yukon Gold is more solid than your Silverton Russet!

 

[pipelineaudio]

If it aint purple, don't eat it

 

[fretworn]

 

[fretworn]

If it aint purple, don't eat it

I’ve had Peruvian purple potatoes…

No thank you … ketchup doesn’t even work

 

[Alex Kenivel]

Low end speakers must have more starch. They don't hold their form as well as low-starch speakers.

 

[ragingplatypi]

I understand having headphones, studio monitors and maybe a "FRFR" setup or poweramp + guitar cab for live use. But each of those needs to be quality stuff if you want the best sound out of them.

I see output systems as "buy good once, keep for decades" stuff so higher prices for higher quality are warranted. Not necessarily buying the most expensive, highest end unit out there but just better than the bargain basement stuff.

Theoretically I agree. But then there’s reality. Whether it’s money, or just the nature of a gig where you’re using other people’s gear, a lot of folks won’t have access to great options all the time. So I think it’s worth promoting better knowledge of the signal chain and knowing how to work it. For example, throwing an eq at the end of a signal chain before a house PA or backline amp helps immensely, but not everyone knows that right off the bat. I can quickly adapt my rig to any output system, but I’ve had decades to figure it out.

Financially I’d use the guitar analogy again- I’m going to make the best with my Alvarez while I save up for a Taylor. I’d rather buy a higher end modeler and good headphones first, and save up for nicer amp/"FRFR" later.

 

[bdrepko]

Customer 1, posting in a new thread: "What's the best "FRFR" speaker for my modeler? My budget is $20"

Too bad Radio Shack is not around anymore.

 

[Jarick]

Too bad Radio Shack is not around anymore.

I really miss Radio Shack. My dad was an EE so we would go there all the time. Even into my 20's I would run over there for random stuff to use in projects. Now my only option is Amazon.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Speaking of iconic movie scenes...

 

[ejecta]

Ya know, with all the advertising and all the word of mouth about modelers, you can't expect the general public to know better.
Ads for the modelers don't mention playback systems. They don't tell you that after you spend almost 2 grand on your modeler,
that you need to spend 1/2 or 2/3s that amount on a good playback system...

Is it unrealistic for some of that to ask that be told also?

Exactly. Given people “should” know better doesn’t mean they will and for sure these modelers are marketed as aping your favorite amp “at bedroom levels”. If modeler manufacturers would have stayed away from all that stupid BS marketing hype of “sound s exactly like” and played up it’s strengths for silent stage and or recording they could have possibly saved themselves some headache but then again they wouldn’t have sold as many modelers I guess.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Exactly. Given people “should” know better doesn’t mean they will and for sure these modelers are marketed as aping your favorite amp. If modeler manufacturers would have stayed away from BS marketing hype they would hav saved themselves some headache.

I see both sides of this though. And I agree with DI as well as what you are saying. But in what world of anywhere would someone expect a digital box and a couple of glorified PA speakers or worse yet, a pair of headphones; to sound just like a cranked amp through a 4x12? Even when I wasn't using this gear; I could figure that out from the jump It seems pretty common sense minded to me?

 

[fretworn]

Spoiler