It’s not the modeler…it’s something else that determines the endresult.

[AFKAEjay]

I see this idea on the forums a lot, and it still makes no sense to me if the goal is for your sound to have the best possible chance of translating well to other systems. I absolutely want my playback system to be accurate and revealing, just like when I'm looking in a mirror I want to see what I actually look like. If my playing sounds harsh and unpleasant through an accurate and revealing playback system, that tells me something's wrong upstream of the playback system. And as you rightly pointed out, it's usually the IR.

I’m in your camp. Point of my OP was that without proper reference…your gonna send sounds into the world you didn’t intend
When you change your reference….what you send out will change accordingly.
That got lost in translation somewhere.

Nothing wrong to go for speakers that are the most pleasing in your mancave, but personally I want speakers that reduce the chance of unwanted surprises in mixes/recordings/signals to foh.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Nothing wrong to go for speakers that are the most pleasing in your mancave, but personally I want speakers that reduce the chance of unwanted surprises in mixes/recordings/signals to foh.

Absolutely.

One thing worth mentioning, though: Usually, anything coming out of the FOH system isn't all that accurate anymore, either - pretty much all close monitoring systems (even cheaper ones) will usually provide more accuracy. The reason being roomsizes and distances, including all the resulting reflections, delay lines and what not. Hardly any typical live venue is really treated soundwise. So they (or the PA company or maybe even you) slap some kind of PA in and call it a day. Speakers are typically above people's heads, listening positions vary wildly, etc.
As a result of all that, your sound will be way less direct once it's running through any such a system. Hence, any less direct monitoring system would only kinda reflect that.

And no, I'm not saying anyone should go for a less accurate monitoring - just that it might not matter as much, at least not as long as it's about live playing (for recording and producing, you obviously want a very accurate, well transfering system).

 

[AFKAEjay]

One thing worth mentioning, though: Usually, anything coming out of the FOH system isn't all that accurate anymore, either - pretty much all close monitoring systems (even cheaper ones) will usually provide more accuracy. The reason being roomsizes and distances, including all the resulting reflections, delay lines and what not. Hardly any typical live venue is really treated soundwise. So they (or the PA company or maybe even you) slap some kind of PA in and call it a day. Speakers are typically above people's heads, listening positions vary wildly, etc.
As a result of all that, your sound will be way less direct once it's running through any such a system. Hence, any less direct monitoring system would only kinda reflect that.

While all true…in my mind accurate monitoring helps to reduce risks that you’re completely out of “the zone” when you encounter less accurate setups. I mean..if you dial in with too much bass, when you hit a situation with too much bass….you‘re in double trouble

Also, I remain optimistic that a good engineer dials in a PA system with reference audio / measurements…which in theory have the same baseline as reference monitors.

My strategy is to deliver as close to “the norm” as possible…and the rest is up to the engineer…out of my hands.
Which is a theoratical approach…cause my mixingroom is not compensated…and I end up playing stages where 90% comes from the stage anyway

 

[Sascha Franck]

Also, I remain optimistic that a good engineer dials in a PA system with reference audio / measurements…which in theory have the same baseline as reference monitors.

Nah. Go to any soundcheck and listening while they're measuring things in, listening to reference audio and what not. It really *never* sounds close to whatever kind of monitors, for a variety of reasons.

I obviously and completely agree with the rest of your post. Whenever you can, dial your sound in on as accurate systems as possible.

 

[AFKAEjay]

Nah. Go to any soundcheck and listening while they're measuring things in, listening to reference audio and what not. It really *never* sounds close to whatever kind of monitors, for a variety of reasons.

I dont think we contradic. The baseline is the same…but the endresult will not be( like you say) simply cause of whatever variables pa/room/expertise throw at it. We all try to get to zero..and we never will

I simply assume that if Im at the right baseline with my sounds, I get the best results for that given night, cause the soundguy has done his job to dial to that same baseline.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I dont think we contradic.

No, we defenitely don't, it's all fine.
All I was saying is that some things might not be all *that* important.
Heck, when dealing with traditional cabs and mics in a live context, we're further away from being "in control" than with even some really cheap monitors. The sound we're listening to pretty much 100% certainly is almost night and day compared what's coming out of a PA in that case.

 

[la szum]

Yup. FOH is not an absolute and there is little guarantee that they are on top of their
game anymore than anyone else is or is not.

My beef is with modern music production in a live setting, in general these days. Bass is super hyped,
and mids are scooped. That seldom results in good guitar tone in the PA, let alone great guitar tone.