IK Multimedia TONEX

UA are typically very much component modelling based, and only do black box type modelling where it makes sense (and for small portions of the circuit). I don’t think even their black box approach is ML based at all, I don’t think it’s how they operate as a company or where their tech is at. There’s quite a few interviews with their devs scattered around online and also their old blog posts that talk a bit about their process.
I can't find anything more recent about this. I just find it very curious that they would approach it exactly like this with e.g Woodrow having no more than a tone knob, Ruby's treble/bass not working in some situations etc. But UA to me makes some bad design decisions on their gear so I would not put it past them.
 
I can't find anything more recent about this. I just find it very curious that they would approach it exactly like this with e.g Woodrow having no more than a tone knob, Ruby's treble/bass not working in some situations etc. But UA to me makes some bad design decisions on their gear so I would not put it past them.
UA are traditionally quite reluctant to veer too much from original behaviours - they go out of their way to capture odd things like band interactions, and are reluctant to add things like mix controls or additional filters (which they’ve only been adding in recently on their plugins). They definitely pride themselves on capturing those unintentional behaviours, like the EQ positions on the 1073 having an effect on the curve even with no gain added.

They’ve always championed the benefits of algorithmic circuit based modelling being superior and preferable for analog emulations, it’s their bread and butter. There’s a great Tone Talk Episode with James Santiago that’s worth listening too btw, he seems to really know his stuff.
 
I did write this article a while back now:


ToneX was measureably better than KPA and QC. QC was measurably better than KPA. Which is also what my ears tell me.


That's not true for me tbh Ed. After 11 odd years of owning 5 different iterations of the Kemper... I had a moment of clarity with it - I've used the Kemper on some albums, but I've never liked the low end, and it always sounded different to the real amp to me. People blamed my DI box, so I got a posh one. Then people blamed my microphone, so I tried others. Then people blamed my refining process, so I tried loads of different options. Then people blamed my ears, and I stopped short of cutting them off and realised that most of the guys on the Kemper forums are just total fangurls and apologists.

Kemper v2.0 if/when it happens will most likely be amazing, taking advantage of machine learning techniques developed in the last 10 years. But the Kemper as it is... dead duck to me.


Awesome article. Great read and I understood %99 of it which for me is unheard of :)

All the best,
Ben
 
UA are traditionally quite reluctant to veer too much from original behaviours - they go out of their way to capture odd things like band interactions, and are reluctant to add things like mix controls or additional filters (which they’ve only been adding in recently on their plugins). They definitely pride themselves on capturing those unintentional behaviours, like the EQ positions on the 1073 having an effect on the curve even with no gain added.

They’ve always championed the benefits of algorithmic circuit based modelling being superior and preferable for analog emulations, it’s their bread and butter. There’s a great Tone Talk Episode with James Santiago that’s worth listening too btw, he seems to really know his stuff.

James is the man and definitely knows his stuff! One of the few dudes capable of nailing EJ’s tone, too.

 
When is someone going to tell IK Multimedia Glenn Fricker is NOT a glowing endorsement of their product.

So long as the gain is on a gazillion thats great tone to him. Then he does pickup shootouts and proclaims pickups dont matter. Well of course they dont when you set everything to jar of angry bees. nothing will. Neither will this plugin.
 
When is someone going to tell IK Multimedia Glenn Fricker is NOT a glowing endorsement of their product.

So long as the gain is on a gazillion thats great tone to him. Then he does pickup shootouts and proclaims pickups dont matter. Well of course they dont when you set everything to jar of angry bees. nothing will. Neither will this plugin.
Oh boy.... my mate just dropped this on me..... and as the rest of the world.... I wish to spread the misery.....
 
I tried capturing again yesterday. I cannot, for the life of me, get output to go out of my output 3 of my Audient to the DI, to then get reamped and captured. It's pretty frustrating. Clearly I'm doing something wrong here, but I can't get Audient to respond either.
 
I am quite confident for example UA pedals are ML models because the UA Ruby's treble/bass controls only work on the Brilliant channel - just like the real vintage Vox AC30s. A sensible approach on a digital modeler would be to say "hey, turn those to this setting for authentic operation or use them as you prefer" and offer both because "these knobs do nothing unless you have this channel selected" is not really a great user experience.
Huh? “Their tone knobs don’t work in some models, must be machine learning” is quite the non sequitur.
 
The app just got updated and is now a bit better design and I hope IK keeps iterating on it. I think it still has some key issues:

IssueSolution
Constant loading screens on Tone.netAdd a small loading indicator on a corner or under the list of models so it's not as disruptive.
Alternatively add placeholder rows at the end of the list so by the time user scrolls there, the new models are loaded and the placeholders replaced. This allows basically invisible loading and is a technique used by some social media platforms.
No intuitive sort orderSort by <selected column> OR character OR name. Groups items by character (e.g clean, clean, drive, drive, higain) and alphabetic name.
Character is not granular enoughA "gain scale" would work because e.g high gain rhythm vs lead could be very different
Can't show amp controls and larger list of models/presetsWhen you expand the list, shrink the amp to the size of e.g Advanced controls.
Amp/cab selection up top is really lacking infoMake it work like the tone models list so you can see what each model is based on etc
Lack of filters for amp/cab selectionAdd filters. This works terribly with the free ToneX version when you cannot filter for what you have.

I'd probably also consider getting rid of the Tone models list because I feel the difference between selecting from the Tone model list vs selecting a Preset is unclear.

Tone models list might be better off being on the Tone.net side of the UI so you have the dichotomy of "what I have" vs "what I can get".

@IK Multimedia
 
solid update actually, lots of requests (seemingly) taken care of.

EDIT: had a nose around. Its kind of half taken care of but almost all the updates still have room to be done better. For instance:

- Input trim=good. Would have made more sense to include the calibration markers that you get when using the modeller so others can ensure the correct gainstaging is maintained.

- Tuner. Nice to have it, but I wish it was expandable. IK has an excellent tuner that I'd love to use.

The feel is much snappier and it looks more modern and slick. Text is more readable. Its still not really too easy to organise things though, and things like the IR and cab browser is still really limited in that regard. There's no way to sort or organise IR's you load into their browser. More amp skins is good, but its still not possible to change them after the fact.
 
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$400 you get the pedal, tonex max and amplitube 5? Sold. I'll just have to learn to live with the software.

Wonder how long my 8700K and 1070Ti will take to make an Advanced capture?

We shall see...
 
$400 you get the pedal, tonex max and amplitube 5? Sold. I'll just have to learn to live with the software.

Wonder how long my 8700K and 1070Ti will take to make an Advanced capture?

We shall see...
So if I get this bundle; I'm able to do captures of the Badlander? Can it do direct captures without a mic?
 
So if I get this bundle; I'm able to do captures of the Badlander? Can it do direct captures without a mic?

Yep. You could capture the Badlander directly from the builtin cab clone which would capture the IR you load.

What I still need to research is can Tonex split out the cab (IR) from the amp like the Kemper does after you have created a capture with the IR or do I have to capture just the raw amp (no IR) and also make captures of the amp and IR. I think if you want amps with no IR you have to capture them separately.

You can do full captures with just Tonex SE for $50. Tonex Max is $250 on it's own but it's free when you buy the $400 Tonex Pedal.
 
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