I don't get the Dumble thing

I like the Robben Ford preset in Helix, with the litigator model. It captures his od sound pretty well I think.
I heart the litigator! never really got on with the GSG in the 10-15 minutes I screwed around with it...

then again, I still mostly use presets I made with the original (legacy) cabs because of 3 reasons

1. I'm lazy and B. I think they sound fine.
 
I like the Robben Ford preset in Helix, with the litigator model. It captures his od sound pretty well I think.
It’s a good sound but not close to having a Dumble in the room. It just sounds bigger, hard to describe and not really captured in recording. The thing that makes them better than the clones is that the cumulative effect of a particular set of components has been accounted for and compensated. It’s not a static circuit. If you copied it exactly down to the same brand of components it would still not be the same because of the cumulative effect of component tolerance. Dumble would then make changes to circumvent the potential negative effects of part drift and bring the amp back to his original vision . The part that’s missing from the clones is his judgment and ears. He only made amps for people he liked and it was his vision of how he wanted it to sound.
 
if u have a Helix u have Gramatico GSG, it's 1:1 if there is one
Rejected College Basketball GIF by NCAA March Madness
 
Back in the day at the other place, the weird borderline nationalism/racism against Ceriatone was insane. But using all the right components and skilled techs in a well lit, clean workspace, Nik’s company was making fantastic amps for a tenth the price of Two Rock and Bludotone and maybe a third or quarter of Fuchs clones. No doubt, the finishing touches, trim, logos etc were all noticeably more refined on the most pricey clones, but no the tones weren’t any more stellar at all from the unfortunately-priced amps. (No hate—a one man operation like Bludo means if you’re gonna make a living, that’s how. But then it retired doctors and lawyers and bankers using them, and rarely the light of an actual stage.)

Regarding real Dumbles, I heard all of the most iconic examples at the height of their legendary owners’ reigns, most in small venues. In the course of my non-playing career I also heard a handful of famous Dumbles as a photographer on the wall in NYC and LA studios, as well as a bunch of incredible less-typical Dumbles owned by a famous producer, including a Bassman head used for the Ultraphonix mod, a couple of brilliant Tweed Deluxes and an amazing reworked AC-50 head.

Anyone who doesn’t think Dumble was a bit of a sonic genius whose work helped facilitate many of the greatest tones of a large swath of our favorite tonemeister musicians’ careers simply doesn’t understand his role in amp history. So what that’s no big crime. But among people who know, the secondhand dismissals usually come off as a bit naive. Again, so what.

The two Dumbles that I played myself were part of a sort of legendary NY collection. It wasn’t fun. The Dumbleator buffered effects loop wasn’t connected, which meant that getting at that crazy clean zing required volume in the room that was painful. So I can’t really judge if those were/are special amps. Totally anecdotal, but me thinks if they were, we might have heard about more specific recordings where those amps were used.

Meanwhile I had Ceriatone make me an ODS clone with a tube buffered effects loop built in to the head, which also functions as an attenuator. I had a matching 1x12 oval opening cab with an EVM 12L built by Stagecraft. This thing was an absolutely holy grail rig. I owned five or six of the famous D pedals and none touched the od channel of that amp. But anyway it was the clean channel of that amp that I still miss dearly.

Over the decades I’ve always kept amazing 5 watt Valcos around, Gretsch and Supro, and a bunch of silverface Fenders, small medium large.

But the experience of using that Ceriatone rig was different and amaaaazing. And addictive, and also untenable as an 85lb rig for city gigs, and also a real risk for ear health. The addictive part definitely multiplied as the volume was goosed.

Kemper is great, and I love the “discontinued” (?) MBritt Gramattico SSS profiles, and the Dumblish part of the CW plugin is cool too, and Bert M’s Red Plate profiles are great, etc etc, but nothing digital that I‘ve used feels like that live rig (even though you can get at some of the sounds in recordings).

Annnnnnnnnd …even though yes Dumbles and the well-cloned circuits are way more beautiful than the naysayers would have you believe (and true they were also never worth those 7k clone price tags sorry), a slightly modified mid 70s Deluxe Reverb with a few good pedals - or sure most any even less cork-sniffy utilitarian rig - is still a capable way for a guitarist who has something to say to get that message across.

Like most things on the internet it’s the second or thirdhand hating that usually elevates certain pieces of equipment all out of proportion, when those things probably would’ve otherwise existed below the radar, for the folks who found that gear useful.

Shrug.

ymmv

Throwback:
novel length post™
(sorry)
 
Back in the day at the other place, the weird borderline nationalism/racism against Ceriatone was insane. But using all the right components and skilled techs in a well lit, clean workspace, Nik’s company was making fantastic amps for a tenth the price of Two Rock and Bludotone and maybe a third or quarter of Fuchs clones. No doubt, the finishing touches, trim, logos etc were all noticeably more refined on the most pricey clones, but no the tones weren’t any more stellar at all from the unfortunately-priced amps. (No hate—a one man operation like Bludo means if you’re gonna make a living, that’s how. But then it retired doctors and lawyers and bankers using them, and rarely the light of an actual stage.)

Regarding real Dumbles, I heard all of the most iconic examples at the height of their legendary owners’ reigns, most in small venues. In the course of my non-playing career I also heard a handful of famous Dumbles as a photographer on the wall in NYC and LA studios, as well as a bunch of incredible less-typical Dumbles owned by a famous producer, including a Bassman head used for the Ultraphonix mod, a couple of brilliant Tweed Deluxes and an amazing reworked AC-50 head.

Anyone who doesn’t think Dumble was a bit of a sonic genius whose work helped facilitate many of the greatest tones of a large swath of our favorite tonemeister musicians’ careers simply doesn’t understand his role in amp history. So what that’s no big crime. But among people who know, the secondhand dismissals usually come off as a bit naive. Again, so what.

The two Dumbles that I played myself were part of a sort of legendary NY collection. It wasn’t fun. The Dumbleator buffered effects loop wasn’t connected, which meant that getting at that crazy clean zing required volume in the room that was painful. So I can’t really judge if those were/are special amps. Totally anecdotal, but me thinks if they were, we might have heard about more specific recordings where those amps were used.

Meanwhile I had Ceriatone make me an ODS clone with a tube buffered effects loop built in to the head, which also functions as an attenuator. I had a matching 1x12 oval opening cab with an EVM 12L built by Stagecraft. This thing was an absolutely holy grail rig. I owned five or six of the famous D pedals and none touched the od channel of that amp. But anyway it was the clean channel of that amp that I still miss dearly.

Over the decades I’ve always kept amazing 5 watt Valcos around, Gretsch and Supro, and a bunch of silverface Fenders, small medium large.

But the experience of using that Ceriatone rig was different and amaaaazing. And addictive, and also untenable as an 85lb rig for city gigs, and also a real risk for ear health. The addictive part definitely multiplied as the volume was goosed.

Kemper is great, and I love the “discontinued” (?) MBritt Gramattico SSS profiles, and the Dumblish part of the CW plugin is cool too, and Bert M’s Red Plate profiles are great, etc etc, but nothing digital that I‘ve used feels like that live rig (even though you can get at some of the sounds in recordings).

Annnnnnnnnd …even though yes Dumbles and the well-cloned circuits are way more beautiful than the naysayers would have you believe (and true they were also never worth those 7k clone price tags sorry), a slightly modified mid 70s Deluxe Reverb with a few good pedals - or sure most any even less cork-sniffy utilitarian rig - is still a capable way for a guitarist who has something to say to get that message across.

Like most things on the internet it’s the second or thirdhand hating that usually elevates certain pieces of equipment all out of proportion, when those things probably would’ve otherwise existed below the radar, for the folks who found that gear useful.

Shrug.

ymmv

Throwback:
novel length post™
(sorry)
Interesting read, I appreciate it.
You seem like a good dude to go fishin’ with.
Cheers for YEARS🤘🏻
 
I’ve been reexamining my outlook on a D style amp. I can’t say I’d go for the biggest most expensive clones. If a Ceriatone popped up around used for the right price I might have a hard time saying no. A used Fuchs out of the Wildcard series would probably be right up my alley though. And this isn’t a knock on Nik. I’ve just never played his amps. I have played a Fuchs. A Blackjack 21 Mk II is more or less a Deluxe Reverb power section with Andy’s take on the Dumble sound without some of the refinements of the ODS he does. And to be quite honest that would be enough for me. Maybe a Full House if I needed 50 watts. I’m not that great of a player that I need everything that comes with the full Dumble experience.
 
The Ceriatone ODS clone I had was a relatively “simple” set and forget amp once I landed on my tone, which was pretty immediate. The cab from Stagecraft was amazing, and that creamy EVM12L .. so who knows what element made the amp.

So many 70s acts loaded Deluxe Reverbs with 12L’s to survive the rigors and volumes of the road and sounded great.

But to my ear the Ceriatone delivered an almost mythical idealized Fender clean. Fat and zingy and sustain for days. Any good amp is pretty much good for any kind of music, but an argument can be made that the Dumble thing wouldn’t have been an improvement over the scooped skinny tones used for so many of our favorite rhythm tracks over the years. But no denying that the “typical” Dumble clean setup is an amazing thing to play.

I don’t know too much about Fuchs, only that every profile / UAD plug and many clips of the real things tend toward an aggressive voicing that isn’t exactly what I’m after. People love ‘em though.

Anyway there’s an old YouTube clip of Tim Lerch comparing edge of breakup tones using an Ethos and a Zen through a Deluxe Reverb. Both sound incredible. Both great pedals, but when the right person is dialing things in, it sort of stops mattering.

(Kidding—it always matters!™)
 
PS I don’t know what the prices are these days, but back when I got mine with all the bells and whistles half power option and tube effects loop and the sweet custom cab from a separate company, it was roughly $1750 all in, delivered to my door. At the time that felt like a truly incredible value. Ceriatone makes their money, but the business model is definitely guitarist friendly.
 
PS I don’t know what the prices are these days, but back when I got mine with all the bells and whistles half power option and tube effects loop and the sweet custom cab from a separate company, it was roughly $1750 all in, delivered to my door. At the time that felt like a truly incredible value. Ceriatone makes their money, but the business model is definitely guitarist friendly.
That doesn't sound unreasonable at all.

I sometimes think that these amps are priced so high partly because people expect them to be, like if it's too cheap then it can't be top tier.
 
Fender Super Reverb Reissue and a Zendrive can get you 3% of the way there
according to Robben Ford. He's been using that kind of backline setup for decades
now when and if he can't transport his Dumble on the road. I am also sure it is
much more than 3% of the way there.

There's your $1500 Dumble Rig in a pinch. Bonus is it will do other sounds better
than Dumbles. Kick off that Zendrive and kick on a TS-style OD and there's your
SRV, too. Amazing! :chef
 
Fender Super Reverb Reissue and a Zendrive can get you 3% of the way there
according to Robben Ford. He's been using that kind of backline setup for decades
now when and if he can't transport his Dumble on the road. I am also sure it is
much more than 3% of the way there.
I thought it was more a Twin Reverb with Robben?

There's your $1500 Dumble Rig in a pinch. Bonus is it will do other sounds better
than Dumbles. Kick off that Zendrive and kick on a TS-style OD and there's your
SRV, too. Amazing! :chef
Yep, same with a Twin. I used a TS9 and one for a while live. Occasionally a V-twin clean boost to goose it a bit more.
 
Fender Super Reverb Reissue and a Zendrive can get you 3% of the way there
according to Robben Ford. He's been using that kind of backline setup for decades
now when and if he can't transport his Dumble on the road. I am also sure it is
much more than 3% of the way there.

There's your $1500 Dumble Rig in a pinch. Bonus is it will do other sounds better
than Dumbles. Kick off that Zendrive and kick on a TS-style OD and there's your
SRV, too. Amazing! :chef

I mean that’s why I have a Dude that I use with my Vibrolux. But I do want to try the Zendrive and Barber Burn Unit.
 
I thought it was more a Twin Reverb with Robben?


Yep, same with a Twin. I used a TS9 and one for a while live. Occasionally a V-twin clean boost to goose it a bit more.

I bet it depends on what is provided and what he can get access to. :idk

I am honestly kind of shocked he sent that ODS of his overseas to UK and Europe.
The live stuff I have seen of him overseas has pretty much always been with some
kind of local backline.

Here he is using a Princeton by the looks of it. Can hear when he kicks on the Zen.

 
The thing I remember from a Robben Ford gig in Hamburg (maybe around 1995 or so?) was that he had the most glorious cleaning up overdrive sound I had ever heard until then. I think it's partially got to do with the Fender Robben Ford model he was playing through the Dumble back then and I never understood why that guitar model was abandoned because I have never ever heard Ford sounding that great again. On the next gig I was at, he almost exclusively played a Tele through 2 Twins (no idea whether he was already using a Zendrive) and it's been ice-pick-in-the-forehead all throughout.
Anyhow, for me that was *the* epitome of d-style guitar sound. I think there's even a video of that particular gig, but unfortunately I can't find it right now.
 
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The thing I remember from a Robben Ford gig in Hamburg (maybe around 1995 or so?) was that he had the most glorious cleaning up overdrive sound I had ever heard until then. I think it's partially got to do with the Fender Robben Ford model he was playing through the Dumble back then and I never understood why that guitar model was abandoned because I have never ever heard Ford sounding that great again. On the next gig I was at. he almost exclusively played a Tele through 2 Twins (no idea whether he was already using a Zendrive) and it's been ice-pick-in-the-forehead all throughout.
Anyhow, for me that was *the* epitome of d-style guitar sound. I think there's even a video of that particular gig, but unfortunately I can't find it right now.
Twins can get a bit bright and 'peaky'. They're certainly not for the tame of heart because it will expose you.(y)
 
GGF is totally dead. I stopped even going there to read it because nothing is being posted.
That's not true lol we had to change server in February and I had to get a new URL and reset the forum. But it's been fine. Over 5000 posts in the last 3 months. Far from dead. If you don't like it there that's 100% your right, but please don't spread stuff like this. The forum is alive and well.
 
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