I don't get the Dumble thing

[Boudoir Guitar]

This is the kind of mystique building that is kind of the same as "this modeler does not feel right to me" statements. I can't go play an unobtainium amp any more than I can jump into someone else's brain to perceive how something feels to them.

Maybe you are right, and the real deals are just that good. But you rarely hear these sort of statements thrown around for amps that any Joe Schmoe can just go try at Guitar Center.

As for clones and digital models not replicating the "real" experience...why not? The few clones I've played certainly did the things that I associate with the Dumble sound, the same things you can hear e.g on that TPS video.

You seem to have general ennui about the sounds available from gear these days. Your above quote of me makes it seem like it doesn't matter what the amp is, if anyone gets super excited about it and saysplaying it was a bit of a life changing moment, you wouldn't get it and would just reply with "meh, its just a slightly modified xyz, which is nothing special."

Which is very different than: "I know what you mean. Those tones sometimes give me goosebumps. Have you tried xyz? Its really close and has moved me in a similar way."

Not judging anyone and I'm sure there's a lot more going on with folks than what is expressed on a forum, but there just seem lately to be a lot of guys that have and continue to spend a lot of time, money, and energy on a hobby that doesn't bring them a commensurate return on investment in terms of joy and excitement.

 

[laxu]

You seem to have general ennui about the sounds available from gear these days. Your above quote of me makes it seem like it doesn't matter what the amp is, if anyone gets super excited about it and saysplaying it was a bit of a life changing moment, you wouldn't get it and would just reply with "meh, its just a slightly modified xyz, which is nothing special."

Which is very different than: "I know what you mean. Those tones sometimes give me goosebumps. Have you tried xyz? Its really close and has moved me in a similar way."

Not judging anyone and I'm sure there's a lot more going on with folks than what is expressed on a forum, but there just seem lately to be a lot of guys that have and continue to spend a lot of time, money, and energy on a hobby that doesn't bring them a commensurate return on investment in terms of joy and excitement.

I don't think that's it at all.

I'm more questioning the mythos and pricing of amps like Dumble, and the overall "you need to have one to hear it" gatekeeping via rarity/price exclusivity. I would say the same thing about e.g Wizards - to me those sound like nothing more than another modded Marshall with a bigger price tag slapped on it compared to other boutique Marshall style amps. Good business for Wizard to be able to ask those prices, but that's about it.

I have become jaded about amps though. Having owned a bunch over the years, having tried several times more, then having owned modelers with 100+ amp models on tap...eventually you start to realize how few of them are that different even within a sub-genre like say Marshall style amps which are my personal favorite. Put them all thru the same cab and you could dial them to sound quite similar. The reason to own one or the other is often more a question of features than having a vastly different flavor. I'd buy e.g a Friedman over a Marshall just because the Friedman is likely to do more and is more practical overall.

I have been very happy about the tones I've been getting with my BluGuitar + Bluetone 4x10 rig the past few days and being able to play that rig loud puts a smile on my face. Dead simple too.

 

[Achilles]

I'm more questioning the mythos and pricing of amps like Dumble,

Mythos implies fake.
The 'mystique' attached to Dumble is real and very much warranted for a number of reasons.

1. He didn't build a lot.
2. He worked directly with legendary guitarists voicing amps specifically for them.
3. Those iconic artists sang his praises to anyone who would listen.
4. The internet and guitar gear forums happened.

 

[laxu]

Mythos implies fake. The 'mystique' attached to Dumble is real and very much warranted for a number of reasons.

1. He didn't build a lot.
2. He worked directly with legendary guitarists voicing amps specifically for them.
3. Those iconic artists sang his praises to anyone who would listen.
4. The internet and guitar gear forums happened.

5. All the other Dumble style amp makers piggybacked on that mystique and slapped a huge price tag on their amps because they knew they could sell. Hell, the price tag might be part of the appeal because you feel like you are getting "the next best thing to the real deal" if it's that expensive.

 

[Achilles]

5. All the other Dumble style amp makers piggybacked on that mystique and slapped a huge price tag on their amps because they knew they could sell. Hell, the price tag might be part of the appeal because you feel like you are getting "the next best thing to the real deal" if it's that expensive.

That's not part of the mystique of Dumble, but yeah, ABSOLUTELY!

Ever wonder why Gibson is able to price R9s higher than regular standards?
That's them profiting off of their own mystique!

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

5. All the other Dumble style amp makers piggybacked on that mystique and slapped a huge price tag on their amps because they knew they could sell. Hell, the price tag might be part of the appeal because you feel like you are getting "the next best thing to the real deal" if it's that expensive.

Did they? I don't remember Fuchs ever being any more expensive than any other amp maker of similar output -- kind of inline with where Dr. Z was before they scaled things up a few years ago? Morgan's Dumble-inspired offerings aren't any pricier than their other offerings. Two Rocks are a LITTLE pricey, but not outrageously so, and also have a build quality that seems to be sufficiently higher than most amps to justify the jump in price. Don't know the history of the Bludotone stuff, but they also have a pretty direct connection with Larry Carlton so its more than just "we are making Dumble style amps"

I would say the difference in price between a Fender Custom Shop Strat and an American Professional Strat; not to mention any number of Asian-made Strat-shaped objects; is a much bigger chasm.

 

[Life Eats Life]

I don't think that's it at all.

I'm more questioning the mythos and pricing of amps like Dumble, and the overall "you need to have one to hear it" gatekeeping via rarity/price exclusivity. I would say the same thing about e.g Wizards - to me those sound like nothing more than another modded Marshall with a bigger price tag slapped on it compared to other boutique Marshall style amps. Good business for Wizard to be able to ask those prices, but that's about it.

I have become jaded about amps though. Having owned a bunch over the years, having tried several times more, then having owned modelers with 100+ amp models on tap...eventually you start to realize how few of them are that different even within a sub-genre like say Marshall style amps which are my personal favorite. Put them all thru the same cab and you could dial them to sound quite similar. The reason to own one or the other is often more a question of features than having a vastly different flavor. I'd buy e.g a Friedman over a Marshall just because the Friedman is likely to do more and is more practical overall.

I have been very happy about the tones I've been getting with my BluGuitar + Bluetone 4x10 rig the past few days and being able to play that rig loud puts a smile on my face. Dead simple too.

Hell yeah with the 4X10!!!

 

[JiveTurkey]

Have you guys tried the Minotaur on .5 in front of the Badonk? Same thing.

 

[Mongillo19]

Have you guys tried the Minotaur on .5 in front of the Badonk? Same thing.

What cab tho

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

NAD guys. It sounds close enough, and has some nice features.

I get not liking a thing, or not getting a thing, or not liking/getting MOST things. And I get inadvertently wet blanketing other people's new gear excitement.

But hopefully with the amount of time, energy, and money that folks around here have put into guitar gear, it's not something that Marie Kondo would toss out the window without a second thought, stripping you back to a Squire Classic Vibe, Peavey Bandit and a tube screamer (not that there's anything wrong with that rig).

Hopefully we all still have those same moments with some of our gear that @Orvillain has when playing a tube amp, or that inspire @Devin 's short, two word, highly articulate approval response of a piece of gear.

And while the TPS guys are drooling over Robben Ford's Dumble, if you watch to the end, they also make it clear that it's an experience but not one worth stretching yourself financially for. And they've also shown absolute giddiness over a pedalboard plugged into a Blues Jr. and/or AC15 at times - none of which made them NOT want to have a go on Robben's Dumble.

I love my K-Line and am currently weighing various $4k+ SG-style guitar options for a late summer "I made it to a personal goal I set for myself" celebration purchase, but the last few days I've literally laughed out loud at how good and different my DIY "weight relieved" Hamer Echotone and Epiphone SG both. The fact that they are bringing me that much joy does nothing to make me think "wait, maybe my Epiphone SG is enough?"

 

[Achilles]

Dumbles, KonMari, and Clones.... OH MY!!!

 

[came the rain]

I have been very happy about the tones I've been getting with my BluGuitar

Hate to break it to you but the BluGuitar plays and sounds awfully similar to running through a solid state rig.

Moving on to modeling…

A modeler is just that… a model. An emulation. Not the same.

Dumbles being expensive is simply supply and demand. The market sets the price. It’s not rocket science.

If you play a Marshall, Bogner, and Friedman back to back there are differences to notice. Whether they’re important to someone or not is relative.

Everyone has their own standards on what they enjoy gear wise and what they perceive as a good return on that investment.

 

[JiveTurkey]

#joystealer

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

#joystealer

A looooooot of us steal joy, especially when a. We piece of gear is announced and “NO MIDI NO GO” or whatever. I am absolutely guilty of this all.the.time. And I think that’s fine because we are here to discuss gear. But I think my overall joy bank account is still well into the black?

 

[Sleezy E]

Have you guys tried the Minotaur on .5 in front of the Badonk? Same thing.

I run it at .7 for that extra wapoosh

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I run it at .7 for that extra wapoosh

0.3 - 5.6 ... I mean, they're different, but really all the same. Might as well just make the gain knob a two position toggle.

 

[laxu]

Hate to break it to you but the BluGuitar plays and sounds awfully similar to running through a solid state rig.

Yet at band levels, it sounded/felt so close to a Bogner Goldfinger I had that I sold the Bogner. Not bad for "awfully similar to solid state rig"...

Moving on to modeling…

A modeler is just that… a model. An emulation. Not the same.

Yet again the best models through the closest equivalent output system can sound and feel extremely close to its real world counterparts, to the point that it's difficult to tell when recorded. I was certainly convinced about the Axe-Fx 3's sounds when doing my own tests through a Fryette PS and a couple of real cabs.

Dumbles being expensive is simply supply and demand. The market sets the price. It’s not rocket science.

Now this I can agree with.

If you play a Marshall, Bogner, and Friedman back to back there are differences to notice. Whether they’re important to someone or not is relative.

Yes they are there, and made me pick a Bogner over a Friedman because the Bogner had a bit more "vintage" voicing that I liked. I tried them through the same cab and they weren't that far apart, and some other player might go the other way and prefer the more "modern" sounding Friedman.

They both still do the Marshall thing, and it might be fair to question if those are actually worth the extra money over some Marshall models that are massively cheaper in Europe.

#joystealer

I don't know if some posters in this thread think that I'm trying to shit on someone else's purchases, but I am not.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yet at band levels, it sounded/felt so close to a Bogner Goldfinger I had that I sold the Bogner. Not bad for "awfully similar to solid state rig"...


Yet again the best models through the closest equivalent output system can sound and feel extremely close to its real world counterparts, to the point that it's difficult to tell when recorded. I was certainly convinced about the Axe-Fx 3's sounds when doing my own tests through a Fryette PS and a couple of real cabs.


Now this I can agree with.


Yes they are there, and made me pick a Bogner over a Friedman because the Bogner had a bit more "vintage" voicing that I liked. I tried them through the same cab and they weren't that far apart, and some other player might go the other way and prefer the more "modern" sounding Friedman.

They both still do the Marshall thing, and it might be fair to question if those are actually worth the extra money over some Marshall models that are massively cheaper in Europe.


I don't know if some posters in this thread think that I'm trying to shit on someone else's purchases, but I am not.

I'm gonna go post in a QC thread

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I don't know if some posters in this thread think that I'm trying to shit on someone else's purchases, but I am not.

It's more a not understanding why someone spends as much time in amp/cab and digital modeling forums if they've gotten to a point where their experience is "they all sound the same. Meh. Why does anyone care if they're playing a Friedman vs. a Marshall vs. a Blug guitar, vs. a UA Lion? Just get the one with the right features and form factor."

 

[FuzzyAce]

Just get the one with the right features and form factor.