Here comes Kemper. Bye Felicias

For anyone with a minute to spare to get a tone, Kemper has been gigworthy for shows and mission critical recordings since over ten years. Each significant update has elevated its convenience and broadened its appeal among nitpickers, while touring and recording artists were too busy using the device to make money playing music to complain about hypothetical feature sets. Hey, if you have a great studio setup with nice mics and iconic amps, yes that’s even easier than digital. But not a panacea, since it always boils down to a point of view, attitude and maybe chops. Anyway the update is cool. More the merrier. But there was never a “harsh eq”, and many will continue to use the legacy controls which often improve on what the source amps are able to achieve with their own tone stacks. LP is a neat concept, and it’ll have its applications. So, good on Kemper. It’s a great company. Or use the many alternatives. But this box has always sounded good.
 
creative360 said:
For anyone with a minute to spare to get a tone, Kemper has been gigworthy for shows and mission critical recordings since over ten years. Each significant update has elevated its convenience and broadened its appeal among nitpickers, while touring and recording artists were too busy using the device to make money playing music to complain about hypothetical feature sets. Hey, if you have a great studio setup with nice mics and iconic amps, yes that’s even easier than digital. But not a panacea, since it always boils down to a point of view, attitude and maybe chops. Anyway the update is cool. More the merrier. But there was never a “harsh eq”, and many will continue to use the legacy controls which often improve on what the source amps are able to achieve with their own tone stacks. LP is a neat concept, and it’ll have its applications. So, good on Kemper. It’s a great company. Or use the many alternatives. But this box has always sounded good.
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Michael Wagener is nodding somewhere. (If memory serves, he was a fan of using the device on recordings.)
 
Jarick said:
Can confirm it’s more useful turning down the gain especially with amps that have bright caps. It’s not modeling gain but it seems to be modeling how the bright cap works and maybe interacts with the tone stack?

Before it was more like a generic clean, now it sounds more like a good cleaner version of the amp.

Regardless I’m spending way less time fussing with the amps than before. And so far I’m just using older profiles not new ones made with liquid profiling.
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^^ This ^^ .. had a thought and I think the give-away is in the "how to best do a ground up L.P" instructions .... ie: by setting the Gain on 10/max ... the Kemper will "see" and "know" and "profile" the full real gain of the Amp ... given reducing the Gain on a Profile has never been an issue .... the traditional Gain "authenticity" problem is solved ... along with also solving the EQ "authenticity" of the current 40 or so Amp Channels ... such a simple and elegant solution ... the guy is a freakin' genius :)

Jarick said:
Adding it to old profiles. Mostly MBritt. At this point it’s find something that has a good overall tone with max gain you’d use and then convert and tweak the gain/eq a bit.
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The other thing my ears have noticed in the videos so far .. be it "liquifying" and existing Legacy Profile or doing a ground up LP ... is that that the old traditional Kemper "compressed-mid-range-bump-signature" tone-fingerprint is also gone !

Looking very good so far !

Ben
 
Jarick said:
Yesterday I was ready to trade/sell my Kemper

This morning I snagged a used Remote really cheap off the GC website

If that tells you anything
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Not surprised. :beer

chaos GIF



The closest to a direct representation of your tone journey I could find. :idk




:rofl
 
BenIfin said:
^^ This ^^ .. had a thought and I think the give-away is in the "how to best do a ground up L.P" instructions .... ie: by setting the Gain on 10/max ... the Kemper will "see" and "know" and "profile" the full real gain of the Amp ... given reducing the Gain on a Profile has never been an issue .... the traditional Gain "authenticity" problem is solved ... along with also solving the EQ "authenticity" of the current 40 or so Amp Channels ... such a simple and elegant solution ... the guy is a freakin' genius :)
Click to expand...
On the other hand most amps, especially older non-MV ones, with the max gain sound pretty different from what they sound at more "normal" settings, so I have my doubts how well it will scale back and represent the sound of the amp.

I've yet to see a comparison of "profile with gain on 4-6" vs "liquid profile made with gain on 10 and rolled back to 4-6".
 
laxu said:
On the other hand most amps, especially older non-MV ones, with the max gain sound pretty different from what they sound at more "normal" settings, so I have my doubts how well it will scale back and represent the sound of the amp.

I've yet to see a comparison of "profile with gain on 4-6" vs "liquid profile made with gain on 10 and rolled back to 4-6".
Click to expand...

Mongillo19 said:
I think the videos Ben has been sharing do this? If I understand what you are looking for
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The video's I posted are starting to demonstrate and touch on this ... but its still in early Beta ... so very limited demo's / reviews / video's ....... from the bits of the puzzle I've been reading and hearing so far ..... to me ..... its starting to look like C.K has probably "done it".

I expect there will be a flood of video's in the ensuing weeks from the "big boys" [ usual suspects ;) ] that demonstrate things more clearly

For me .... the "tipping point" will only be seeing and hearing ...... a video demo of a ground up new Liquid Profile of a real Amp done with the corresponding Amp Channel on OS 10 ... and then .... pulling up several different settings on the Real Amp and the same identical several different settings on the Liquid Profile, and listening to how close / same they are.

One way or another ..... good or bad ..... I don't think these tests / demo's are far off at all.

Ben
 
There are few good videos yet on liquid profiling which is surprising. Clearly Kemper doesn't have any kind of guerilla advertising budget...

I'm going to see if I can figure out how to record my screen to do a quick demo and recording.
 
Jarick said:
There are few good videos yet on liquid profiling which is surprising. Clearly Kemper doesn't have any kind of guerilla advertising budget...

I'm going to see if I can figure out how to record my screen to do a quick demo and recording.
Click to expand...

Classic Kemper ^this^ .... for better or worse Kemper have always pretty much let the product speak for itself.

^This^ would be awesome ! ..... and not to sound like a demanding broken record ... if you can and have the time to do this .... the definitive comparison will be a demo of a ground up newly made Liquid Profile of a Real Amp done with the corresponding Amp Channel on OS 10 ... and then .... pulling up several different settings on the Real Amp .... and then the same identical several different settings on the Liquid Profile ... and recording each so we can hear how close / same they are.

Either way ... thanks !
Ben
 
Okay, first YouTube video in over a decade. Caveat that I have no idea how to make videos and really don't have any equipment. Maybe I can make that a goal for 2024.

Basically just trying to show the differences between the old generic profiles and liquid profiles and how easy it is to work with.

 
Jarick said:
Okay, first YouTube video in over a decade. Caveat that I have no idea how to make videos and really don't have any equipment. Maybe I can make that a goal for 2024.

Basically just trying to show the differences between the old generic profiles and liquid profiles and how easy it is to work with.

Click to expand...

Thanks for making this! Really helpful!
 
Jarick said:
Okay, first YouTube video in over a decade. Caveat that I have no idea how to make videos and really don't have any equipment. Maybe I can make that a goal for 2024.

Basically just trying to show the differences between the old generic profiles and liquid profiles and how easy it is to work with.

Click to expand...


Wow ! Huge Thanks Jarick ! Fantastic video .... the difference in Gain changing is *enormous* - the "liquified" profiles really do sound like you are rolling the real amp gain up and down where as the "generic" ones just sound totally flat / linear with no change to gain character .... and the guitar roll-back is dead-on.

My favorites of the post-release Helix Amps - which are fantastic - don't even gain up or down that well - and I love those "newer" models.

I think we are now at a point - and I know its still early days - where 1 x well done ground up Liquid Profile will effectively and for all practical intents and purposes "authentically" Profile the whole Amp Gain and EQ range .... but just as importantly to my ears .... as again demonstrated in this video ... the well-known and well-heard classic Kemper "compressed-mid-range-bump-signature-tone-fingerprint" is totally gone !

I'm having a ball with my Tonex in the Loop of my helix .... but in order to maintain %100 Capture Integrity ... am I needing to do a decent amount of pre-Tonex-Loop and post-Tonex-Loop gaining and eq'ing to get a variety of "Amp" tones ... with LP ... it very much looks like I would be able to just gain and eq the Amp itself without any concerns about "profile authenticity" changing.

Like I've always said ... you're never going to make any money betting against C.K.

I can now definitely see why Cliff / Fractal were/are so pissed.

Thanks again Jarick.

Ben
PS: Why the f%ck am I all of a sudden starting to look at used Kemper Stage pricing :rolleyes:
 
Whether it’s 100% accurate or not, it does seem that Kemper succeeded in creating a device that just sounds good to many people.

I think once their current hardware becomes obsolete, it’ll still be used because some people love the character of how it sounds, like any other good amp.

I think of Kemper more as a capture device that is “heavily inspired” by what you capture, but still flavored with its own sonic fingerprint. If that fingerprint sucked, it’d be a problem, but the underlying core models are pleasing to many users.
 
SwirlyMaple said:
Whether it’s 100% accurate or not, it does seem that Kemper succeeded in creating a device that just sounds good to many people.

I think once their current hardware becomes obsolete, it’ll still be used because some people love the character of how it sounds, like any other good amp.

I think of Kemper more as a capture device that is “heavily inspired” by what you capture, but still flavored with its own sonic fingerprint. If that fingerprint sucked, it’d be a problem, but the underlying core models are pleasing to many users.
Click to expand...

Agree :)

As a long time Fractal / Helix / GT1000 owner user ..... I think their Amp sims are awesome ... but I have never for one second thought they were perfect / identical / same as a real tube amp .... they are close enough for it to be essentially un-important.

This is exactly how I am seeing this new LP [so far] ..... no-one is saying its perfect, but - in its own way - its at least just as "authentic" as the Fractal's / Helix's / GT's ..... naturally each will prefer different ones etc..... but to [now] claim one is "better" is to me, a totally pointless fools errand.

I do disagree on one thing though ;)

I fully expected C.K to probably deliver on what he said about LP ... his track record [mainly] speaks for itself ... what I did not expect to hear in the demo's [so far] is the total disappearance of the "classic" Kemper tone-signature-finger-print.

Good times !

Ben
 
SwirlyMaple said:
Whether it’s 100% accurate or not, it does seem that Kemper succeeded in creating a device that just sounds good to many people.

I think once their current hardware becomes obsolete, it’ll still be used because some people love the character of how it sounds, like any other good amp.

I think of Kemper more as a capture device that is “heavily inspired” by what you capture, but still flavored with its own sonic fingerprint. If that fingerprint sucked, it’d be a problem, but the underlying core models are pleasing to many users.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's kinda funny how a device, that technically fails at what it is meant to do, becomes its own thing where people just like how it sounds and feels.

They say "comparison is the thief of joy" and that's also true for digital modeling. If you stop comparing "does this sound/feel exactly like amp A?" then it becomes a question of "does this sound/feel good to me?"

The best thing to come out of the Liquid Profiling is not necessarily more accuracy, but less fluff. Looking at Jarick's video, there's thousands of captures in some of those folders. That's a ridiculous amount of stuff, nobody has the time to go through all that. If Liquid Profiling means you can have just a handful of profiles of each amp, that's closer to what e.g Fractal or Line6 has with different models for channels/switches/variants.
 
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