Here comes Kemper. Bye Felicias

[Sascha Franck]

I was flipping between my BluGuitar Amp 1 ME, Strymon Iridium and Axe-Fx 3 yesterday for Marshall tones and then just threw my hands up and went "these all sound/feel pretty much equally good for what I want." We are in the age of luxury where so many solutions are really, really good.

Exactly. Did a pretty similar thing (as Marshall-esque tones are still my #1 when going for anything overdriven). I'm abe to get very satisfying (as in "no need to look any further") tones in quite some ways (Atomic AFB, HX Stomp, but even the 800 in the Amp Academy is no complete slouch, then add 2-3 MIAB pedals - and then add myriads of plugins, if I really wanted...). In the end, for such sounds I usually go for my pretty much exact live tones (MIAB pedal into AFB), just because they're the easiest to deal with and the ones I'm most familiar with. But what I actually enjoy the most in this very scenario is having quick access to all most relevant parameters, allowing me to do both finetuning and somewhat more drastical changes in a heartbeat. Again, for me that's so much more relevant than whatever accuracy. I like to play my sounds, my bandmates usually seem to be happy, too, recordings apparently turn out quite decently as well.
So what else would I ask for? Ah right, back to topic, a Kemper. Seriously, that new liquid profiling feature might be something I'd really like for any home noodling and recording duties, checking my "getting the most out of just a few things" boxes.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I lost interest in this about 5 minutes after I created the thread

 

[Whizzinby]

To me, accuracy is the entire point of these products, and the capture technology specifically. I can deal with differences in tone/accuracy with Helix and Axe3, because those aren't attempting to capture my EXACT amplifier. But the capture products on the market - Kemper, ToneX, NAM, Quad Cortex - they are trying to capture my exact amplifier.

100%

I think the vast majority of people with capture devices aren’t actually capturing anything and/or are using a significant amount other people caps. So for many, does it “sound good” ultimately matters more than “is it accurate”.

But, if you are digitizing your rig then accuracy is sort of the entire point of the device.

Generally speaking i don’t see much value in capture platforms unless you are specifically looking to capture your rig. Otherwise these devices just add unnecessary levels of micromanagement and tail chasing versus just using a model.

 

[Deadpan]

Here is a possibility. With studio profiles Kemper could be applying the Liquid algorithm to the Kemper amp that is separated from the cabinet by their algorithm.

This was my thought and why I created direct amp profiles.

 

[yeky83]

Just made a liquid profile of the BE100.

Started by following their advice of gain on 10 - too noisy to do a profile, so I lowered it to 8.

Profile itself sounds pretty good, not too different to the source although with some "kemper giveaway sound" to it. I'd absolutely be happy with using the tone, so no complaints.

Tried adjusting settings on the new profile and then matched them on the amp, then A/B'd. Not even close, the amp was way more drastic with the difference.

Didn't sound bad as such, but it doesn't make the experience any more like using a BE100, nor does it negate the need to make profiles at different settings. Will test it more to see if there is a better way of doing it.

Its a nice enough improvement to using the models, but the claims feel a bit bold atm. Its basically made the EQ behaviour a bit more amp like and familiar in a general sense. Will test more

Did you try changing the Liquid Profile's tonestack position?

 

[yeky83]

100%

I think the vast majority of people with capture devices aren’t actually capturing anything and/or are using a significant amount other people caps. So for many, does it “sound good” ultimately matters more than “is it accurate”.

But, if you are digitizing your rig then accuracy is sort of the entire point of the device.

Generally speaking i don’t see much value in capture platforms unless you are specifically looking to capture your rig. Otherwise these devices just add unnecessary levels of micromanagement and tail chasing versus just using a model.

I generally agree... but with the Kemper, it's a very mature platform that's not just a capture device. So you can just use it like a modeler with great ability to tweak amp tones (without having to flip through profiles), great effects, great performance capabilities, etc.

 

[Jarick]

Okay I took an old MBritt profile "Dirty Laverne Lo 1" which is a Dirty Shirley on the edge of breakup, and changed it to a Liquid Profile by selecting the tone stack of a Friedman BE.

I was able to dial in the tone just using the tone stack very easily. Instead of the knobs being 0 in the middle and then going + or -, it's the usual 1-10. I actually find the knobs easier to work with...probably depends on the tone stack but it seems more forgiving of position where the standard Kemper tone knobs have a drastic impact with just a few clicks. It sounds good and seems to sound natural as well. The MBritt Dirty Shirley is pretty bass heavy but changing the tone stack and cutting the bass a bit plus adding a bit of mid and treble sounded great and better than what I was getting before adjusting the generic Kemper EQ and definition and all that.

Then I tried cranking up the gain, and it honestly sounds really good. I've tried on a few different profiles and it gets bassy when you turn it up, but then you turn down the bass knob and it sounds better again. I think you can also tinker with the bright cap settings if available, which seem useful with something like a JCM 800 tone stack. Either way, I didn't get that really bad fuzzy brittle tone you get when cranking up a profile gain normally.

Also tried with a Tone Junkie Dirty Shirley, and that wasn't as successful. That one I turned up the gain and I did get the bad Kemper fake gain sound. It also generally sounded muddier and I couldn't easily dial in the great tone just with EQ. Still useful but it's not a magic trick.

I need to try other profiles with different tone stacks, but early thoughts it actually seems very neat. I think with some good profiles you could credibly reduce the number you'd need to store and be able to use the controls to get variety, closer to an actual amp or modeler. Not 100%, but closer.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I wonder if anyone who is getting good results with liquid profiles can verify how well the tonestack thing works - capture an amp with everything at 5, then adjust settings to like B=8, M=2, T=4, P=8 and compare with the real amp at those settings.

Curious what everyone’s gauge of accuracy/realism is with this stuff.

 

[littlebadboy]

A wise woman once said, "Oh, I go by ear..." She doesn't go by what it supposed to sound like.

Start at 3:27, if you want to go straight to it...

 

[yeky83]

I wonder if anyone who is getting good results with liquid profiles can verify how well the tonestack thing works - capture an amp with everything at 5, then adjust settings to like B=8, M=2, T=4, P=8 and compare with the real amp at those settings.

Curious what everyone’s gauge of accuracy/realism is with this stuff.

Caveat being that potentiometer tolerance is like +/-20%, so your BMT of 8, 2, 4 might be like 6, 3, 3 or whatever on the Kemper. The point of these tonestack models is that they behave as expected, not that they hit the exact settings.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I generally agree... but with the Kemper, it's a very mature platform that's not just a capture device. So you can just use it like a modeler with great ability to tweak amp tones (without having to flip through profiles), great effects, great performance capabilities, etc.

Exactly. And it's really laid out in the straightest fashion of all (programmable) modelers. So easy to use. Seriously, if I had one, I doubt I'd ever been using the editor apart from sorting some initial things (or in case it was a Kemper Stage). For someone familiar with digital devices, it's an incredibly easy to deal with thing.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Caveat being that potentiometer tolerance is like +/-20%, so your BMT of 8, 2, 4 might be like 6, 3, 3 or whatever on the Kemper. The point of these tonestack models is that they behave as expected, not that they hit the exact settings.

Yep, always going to be a factor, but they say to set your amp models to 5/10 so hopefully much of the tolerance differences get matched between the two.. Can always fine tune by ear if necessary, but you'd hope things aren't drastically off. Much easier for someone to just demonstrate it.

I go by ear when dialling a tone in or setting something up, if I want to know how well a capture works then its good to have some kind of reference point. If it ends up sounding like something that isn't like your amp any more, what was the point in profiling it in the first place? Could be anything if you're just interesting in landing on something cool sounding.

 

[Mongillo19]

Exactly. And it's really laid out in the straightest fashion of all (programmable) modelers. So easy to use. Seriously, if I had one, I doubt I'd ever been using the editor apart from sorting some initial things (or in case it was a Kemper Stage). For someone familiar with digital devices, it's an incredibly easy to deal with thing.

Let's not get carried away I agree it's not a hard device to learn but thats a bold claim

 

[Jarick]

If I can use a mid gain profile and get a credible tone at low and high gains as well (meaning it sounds really good and not weird, not that it sounds exactly like a real world amp on those settings), that would really get me a lot more excited about the Kemper again. Then I'm likely keeping a couple dozen profiles on the unit, max, and don't have to really use Rig Manager ever.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Let's not get carried away I agree it's not a hard device to learn but thats a bold claim

See, as said, I never owned a Kemper but a) borrowed and b) used one for some times. And I never had to refer to any manual or ask people. Which is a pretty good sign.

 

[Blix]

A wise woman once said, "Oh, I go by ear..." She doesn't go by what it supposed to sound like.

Start at 3:27, if you want to go straight to it...

She could use a new set of ears...

 

[JiveTurkey]

"I NEED TO SOUND LIKE A TRIPLE RECTIFIER"

...good fucking luck with Boss on that

 

[BenIfin]

Very quick video from a fellow Aussie.

No ground up Liquid Profiling ...all he does is "retrofit" / "liquify" 2 of his Legacy Profiles and demo's [only] the EQ Stack changes before and after .... frustratingly, he didn't do any Gain Stage changes before and after ... but still an insight into what's going on.

In short ... comparing only the EQ Stack from Legacy to "liquified" ... there is a big differnece in how the EQ Stack now sounds and responds.



Ben

 

[Jarick]

Yesterday I was ready to trade/sell my Kemper

This morning I snagged a used Remote really cheap off the GC website

If that tells you anything

 

[Bob Zaod]

She could use a new set of ears...

if it sounds there like I am hearing it, I agree. Sounds like warmed over dog poo to me.