Here comes Kemper. Bye Felicias

[yeky83]

interesting because that patent infringes on my patent:

US11164551B2 - Amplifier matching in a digital amplifier modeling system - Google Patents

In one example, a method to match a digital amplifier model to a real guitar amplifier comprises obtaining an amplifier output filter and an amplifier input filter for the real guitar amplifier, using the amplifier output filter and a model output filter to obtain a corrective output filter...

patents.google.com

I don’t see how this new patent from Kemper pertains to their Liquid Profiling. I’ve long thought that Kemper’s original patent was too general and non-descriptive to be worth anything (not that I know much about patents), and this reads more like what they should’ve had from the start. Interesting that it’s basically the same patent as the one from Fractal, and the timing of it all…

 

[the-trooper]

- Add usb audio for all unit more than 10 years after the first release is marketing.

It's definitely a useful feature, not just marketing.
To not have it in your digital modeler, even 10 years ago, is pretty strange.
But to actually have the thing, and just let it sit in your units for 10 years before "unlocking" it, that's insane.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Good Lord ... said it before and I'll say it again .....some of you guys are so quick and spot-on with the meme's, I'm just in awe !

 

[Gearzilla]

@Gearzilla is my meme sensei

Just walk the path … lol

 

[the swede]

 

[Orvillain]

Ugh. I deleted HW's 2nd video because it is clickbait wank.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

I wonder if Kemper could design the Tonestack ‘models’ in specific ways to better replicate related characteristics of certain amps?
For example, a Fender Tweed Deluxe has no Presence control..so repurpose the Presence knob on the Kemper hardware to be the Normal input ‘Gain’ component and let the Gain knob be for the High input gain. Similarly with other amps that have two inputs that we often ‘jumper’.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I absolutely fail to understand how anyone would not drool about having access to around 40 different tonestacks in their modelers (completely regardless whether the base tone is coming from a coded or captured amp).
If I had that all of a sudden, I'd very, very certainly drool about it all day long. For extremely good reasons.

 

[Orvillain]

Fwiw, I absolutely fail to understand how anyone would not drool about having access to around 40 different tonestacks in their modelers (completely regardless whether the base tone is coming from a coded or captured amp).
If I had that all of a sudden, I'd very, very certainly drool about it all day long. For extremely good reasons.

Because if the base tone is a bunch of stinky bullshite, then giving me a 3-band tone-stack isn't going to help, regardless how many options I have to choose from.

 

[Orvillain]

Like if Cliff went "you know what Drew... your dick is massive, you're like the English Ron Jeremy, but not as fat and uncouth (maybe) ... and you're totally right... here are all of those 421 IR's you wanted for dyna-cab" ... I'd care infinitely more about that, than this.

 

[ejecta]

….. because it is clickbait wank.

 

[GTR37]

Ugh. I deleted HW's 2nd video because it is clickbait wank.

Was that the Kemper 2
Here is the 15mins summed up
HW asked so when Kemper 2
Christophe replied
Maybe never , maybe we go back and make some keyboards
HW. Ok fans that confirms it reading between the lines of No maybe not ever I can tell that that’s a hint and they are working on it

 

[Sascha Franck]

Because if the base tone is a bunch of stinky bullshite,

Which it isn't.

 

[Orvillain]

Which it isn't.

Perhaps. Perhaps.

When I did my "accuracy" video, I had quite a few people across the internet telling me they (all of a sudden!) didn't care about accuracy, and that the Kemper sounded better than my real amp anyway. lol.



Maybe for those people this is a GaMeChAnGeR ....But for me, it's all just a bit "meh" tbh. Yet again, Kemper working on a bunch of shit that no-one cares about. No one really wants to be able to mess with the tonestack in their profile. They want it to sound imperceptible to their real amp.

NAM is the closest for that. ToneX next. Then Quad Cortex. Then Kemper.

Dems the reals.

 

[James Freeman]

Hybrid of capturing and modeling is the future.

All the simple RC (resistor, capacitor) networks between gain stages that are adjustable by the user like Tonestack, Bright/Fat switches, etc. have been emulated accurately for 20+ years now, it's the gain stages and cathode followers in the preamp that require a lot of time to fine tune when modeling an amp so they sound as close as possible to the reference real amp.

Fine tuning virtual 12ax7 gain stages can be skipped if they can capture parts of the preamp that don't have user controllable knobs in between.
Many amps have several gain stages into a cathode follower before the tonestack, this part can be a single capture.
That way they can build an amp from several captured parts that sounds exactly like the real amp without fine tuning virtual 12ax7 models.

 

[laxu]

Perhaps. Perhaps.

When I did my "accuracy" video, I had quite a few people across the internet telling me they (all of a sudden!) didn't care about accuracy, and that the Kemper sounded better than my real amp anyway. lol.

This is a pretty common response to any proof that product X is not as "sounds exactly like the real deal". I do agree that as long as it sounds and feels good to play it doesn't really matter but it doesn't mean that striving for accuracy is not a valid pursuit.

Maybe for those people this is a GaMeChAnGeR ....But for me, it's all just a bit "meh" tbh. Yet again, Kemper working on a bunch of s**t that no-one cares about. No one really wants to be able to mess with the tonestack in their profile. They want it to sound imperceptible to their real amp.

A common complaint about captures is that you can't operate the captures like the real amp so Kemper provides a solution to that. Someone on TGP mentioned that they talked about this sort of feature all the way back in 2011 but haven't done it until now, perhaps wanting to find a better solution (as based on the patent linked here it's more complex than just pre/post EQ simulated tone stacks) or as a response to differentiate the Kemper from the QC and Tonex.

Like QC, the Kemper is being limited by the capabilities of its DSP processors whereas Tonex and NAM could even be expanded to have a cloud server farm process capture data if they wanted and if there was a benefit to doing so. So for these DSP-tied products to compete, they need to offer other value for their much higher cost. Being an all in one box with effects, USB audio interface capabilities etc is part of it.

I would expect Kemper to be smart enough to see the writing on the wall with capture tech becoming a commodity rather than a unique feature for the Kemper. I've already seen someone run NAM on a Raspberry PI so I would expect some cheap Mooer, Flamma etc box running captures to be out in a year or so.

Kemper will either keep doing their thing as they have a big fanbase or they know they don't have a "Kemper 2" or whatever anywhere close to ready so they put out some requested features to retain their userbase and drive new sales. While the ToneJunkieTV video had pretty much zero information regarding any successor, the question definitely put Christoph Kemper into "pick your words carefully" mode.

 

[FractalAudio]

On our way to Vienna for a few days to visit our nephew, and have some pre-dinner downtime, so here goes.

First, I have less than zero idea on how he has done this and I care even less about the "way" he has done this.

What I do know is KPA always under-promise-and-over-deliver .... the guy is a dead-set genius ... he simply does not think about issues and approach solutions to them the way others do.

I think though some may be missing the big forest for the little tree's.

Lets take an AC30 for example.

CK stated that they have modelled the full-range of the real amp Gain Stack and full range of the real amp EQ Stack controls and it is stored in the KPA as a "Channel" as CK calls it. Lets call it the KPA "AC30 Channel" :)

Listening to CK's explanation a couple of times - and putting aside that this is backwards compatible - it will / should "work" as follows - give or take a menu or button press:-

-> setup your AC30 with the settings you want
-> in the Profiling Menu you will now be able to select the Liquid Profiling Menu option and then there will be an extra menu where you will load the new "Kemper AC30 Channel"
-> in that Kemper "AC30 Channel" menu, you then set the KPA Channel AC30 Amp Controls to be the same as those on your real amp
-> do your Profile
-> then when you load and use this "liquid AC30 Profile", the KPA already knows what the real amp Gain / EQ Stacks do across their full range ... so when you change the KPA G/B/M/T/P/C etc... it will - according to CK - react and sound identical to the way the controls on the real Amp will react and sound when you turn them.

Call me simple - you wont be the first :) - but this is such a brilliantly elegant solution to what many/most thought was "undoable" that I really hesitate to use the phrase .... but it is a big leap forward.

As always the proof of the pudding is in the eating ..... but damn .... CK knows how make a mighty fine pudding :)

All the best to all.
Ben

That's exactly my patent. Exactly.

My patent is essentially:
1. Set amp up how you want.
2. Select appropriate model.
3. Set controls on model same as amp.
4. Run matching/profiling routine.

 

[mbenigni]

It's kind of like grunge being used to describe Melvins, Alice in Chains, and sometimes even Smashing Pumpkins. Those three bands don't have a lot in common with each other outside of roughly being hard rock bands of a similar era. But it's kind of the span of the genre.

This is exactly what I had in mind (also, Soundgarden) when I made the point about genre vs. era above.

See also: all of the diverse music arbitrarily lumped together as "punk" in the early to mid '80s, because... I don't know... same fingernail polish (remover?)

Then we "solved" the problem by inventing more names for genres than there had previously been names for songs.

 

[laxu]

This is exactly what I had in mind (also, Soundgarden) when I made the point about genre vs. era above.

See also: all of the diverse music arbitrarily lumped together as "punk" in the early to mid '80s, because... I don't know... same fingernail polish (remover?)

Then we "solved" the problem by inventing more names for genres than there had previously been names for songs.

I listened to this Nu-Punk Post-Hardcore Darkwave Electro-Swing Death Metal band recently, because I'm cool like that. You've probably never heard of them.

 

[mbenigni]

Hybrid of capturing and modeling is the future.

All the simple RC (resistor, capacitor) networks between gain stages that are adjustable by the user like Tonestack, Bright/Fat switches, etc. have been emulated accurately for 20+ years now, it's the gain stages and cathode followers in the preamp that require a lot of time to fine tune when modeling an amp so they sound as close as possible to the reference real amp.

Fine tuning virtual 12ax7 gain stages can be skipped if they can capture parts of the preamp that don't have user controllable knobs in between.
Many amps have several gain stages into a cathode follower before the tonestack, this part can be a single capture.
That way they can build an amp from several captured parts that sounds exactly like the real amp without fine tuning virtual 12ax7 models.

Is this entirely true, though? Not a rhetorical question at all - I genuinely don't know and would like to. If modeling/ capturing components "that don't have user controllable knobs in between" and simply running them in series is sufficiently accurate to the original system (e.g. guitar amplifier) then we already have most or all of the tools needed at our disposal. But does this accurately model interactions between each of those systems resulting from input/ output impedances, etc.?

(Asking for a friend with one of those god-awful Quad Cortexes.)