Here comes Kemper. Bye Felicias

[Orvillain]

So what’s the upside of profiles in this new world if the modelers are so advanced they model every aspect of an amp and speaker?

Ultimately I think it truly does come down to .... "I have my particular variation of a heavy-ass valve amp inside a small portable digital box"

Honestly, the others are probably correct... if I didn't have any valve amps - or any valve amp experience - I'd probably be perfectly happy with any of this platforms. But since I do have that experience, I can't but help compare them.

 

[metropolis_4]

I think that’s the point though - your specific needs and what’s important may be totally different to someone else’s. Even on the stuff that doesn’t matter to you, better and more consistent accuracy wouldn’t make things any worse.

So even on the things that “don’t matter” there’s nothing to lose by things moving forward and improving.

100% agree, but all I’m talking about is my own personal needs, not everyone.

Me personally, I couldn’t possibly care less about accuracy.

I’m all for improvements in tone, but I don’t care how close those tones sound to the tones another piece of gear makes.

 

[laxu]

And in a world of cheap laptops and audio interfaces, the fact that the Kemper is an all-in-one hardware box, is no longer a market diffrentiator. True enough that most people are still worried about using laptops as replacements for their live rigs, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. It's totally possible, and actually in the non-guitar worlds, the trend has been to replace dedicated hardware with laptops and controllers for a whole host of ergonomic and ease reasons.

The same could be true of guitarists, if they weren't so conservative - by nature it seems.

I used to go to a lot of synthwave gigs as a friend was managing them and for the ones that have guitars, it was something like a 3-way split between laptops, hardware modelers and real amps for the guitar sounds. All sounded appropriate for the genre. The ones with the digital stuff often sounded better as the acoustics of the venues were often not that great.

Another friend does a one man band type thing (keyboards + vocals mostly) with nothing but a laptop and he says he basically bought the most powerful laptop he could get and has spent like 1.5 years to get it all working to his liking. I feel like that describes the laptop experience - there's always software that doesn't work nicely together, MIDI controller support for guitar plugins is all over the place compared to synths, VST hosts can be flaky etc.

That's why I prefer the hardware stuff, whether it's super simple like a Strymon Iridium or complex like the Axe-Fx 3. Just not having to deal with anything but the particular unit's own quirks is preferable to me.

 

[Orvillain]

 

[Orvillain]

I used to go to a lot of synthwave gigs as a friend was managing them and for the ones that have guitars, it was something like a 3-way split between laptops, hardware modelers and real amps for the guitar sounds. All sounded appropriate for the genre. The ones with the digital stuff often sounded better as the acoustics of the venues were often not that great.

Another friend does a one man band type thing (keyboards + vocals mostly) with nothing but a laptop and he says he basically bought the most powerful laptop he could get and has spent like 1.5 years to get it all working to his liking. I feel like that describes the laptop experience - there's always software that doesn't work nicely together, MIDI controller support for guitar plugins is all over the place compared to synths, VST hosts can be flaky etc.

That's why I prefer the hardware stuff, whether it's super simple like a Strymon Iridium or complex like the Axe-Fx 3. Just not having to deal with anything but the particular unit's own quirks is preferable to me.

I'm gonna be doing a gig on the 19th, with a few synths and a laptop. I couldn't really be arsed to try and find software equivalents in order to make my life easier, so it'll be:

- Novation Summit
- Elektron Digitakt
- Waldorf Iridium

Surprisingly, I don't need to run ANY tracks on the laptop. I'll just be using that to record the set as I play it, so I can release a live EP later on.

 

[metropolis_4]

That does not make them "completely different tools" - nosirreee.

The primary sales proposition of a Kemper is ... amp profiling.

The primary sales proposition of ToneX is ... amp profiling.

The primary sales proposition (if it were sold) of NAM is ... amp profiling.

Everything else is a case of workflow, UI, platform, hardware design, and target demographics and user profiles. The fact they're aimed at different types of people does not mean they are different tools; the same way all guitar amps are guitar amps.

And in a world of cheap laptops and audio interfaces, the fact that the Kemper is an all-in-one hardware box, is no longer a market diffrentiator. True enough that most people are still worried about using laptops as replacements for their live rigs, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. It's totally possible, and actually in the non-guitar worlds, the trend has been to replace dedicated hardware with laptops and controllers for a whole host of ergonomic and ease reasons.

The same could be true of guitarists, if they weren't so conservative - by nature it seems.

For me that “everything else” is the most important part.

As someone who spent a lot of time gigging a laptop rig and a Kemper, there is no chance I would ever choose to use a laptop rig running NAM over a Kemper Stage.

For me it’s picking the tool best suited for the job. The amp sounds are a wash, they’re all good enough for my needs and tastes.


For live gigging I think the Kemper is a far superior tool. Performance mode is just amazing to me to use live. And still better than anything any other device has to offer

But if I had a big pedalboard and just wanted a stand-in for an amp to go direct I wouldn’t carry around a Kemper when I could just throw a small pedal on my board.

And if I were working on a track on a computer I’d rather have a plug-in integrated in the tools I’m using rather than a big piece of hardware taking up space

 

[Orvillain]

For me that “everything else” is the most important part.

As someone who spent a lot of time gigging a laptop rig and a Kemper, there is no chance I would ever choose to use a laptop rig running NAM over a Kemper Stage.

For me it’s picking the tool best suited for the job. The amp sounds are a wash, they’re all good enough for my needs and tastes.


For live gigging I think the Kemper is a far superior tool. Performance mode is just amazing to me to use live. And still better than anything any other device has to offer

But if I had a big pedalboard and just wanted a stand-in for an amp to go direct I wouldn’t carry around a Kemper when I could just throw a small pedal on my board.

And if I were working on a track on a computer I’d rather have a plug-in integrated in the tools I’m using rather than a big piece of hardware taking up space

See for me, Kemper is easily the worst option of the bunch.

Why???

No spillover when you put a delay and reverb into the ABCD slots. Immediately took the Kemper off my potential list for live performance. Whenever I used mine, it was always at home, because of this.

Everyone has their own needs and use cases. But that doesn't change the fact of the primary sales proposition being the comparative metric I am using when I talk about the three in one breath.

 

[yeky83]

Unless it's unrelated, I would expect it's part of it in some way. I have no idea but that's the latest patent you can find for Kemper.

Yeah no. The patent is about amp matching using the method of finding out what the filters are in the [filter->distortion->filter] amp model. It doesn’t say anything to suggest that Liquid Profiling is “more complex than just pre/post EQ simulated tone stacks.”

 

[the-trooper]

High time to turn this into a food thread.

 

[fretworn]

 

[BenIfin]

That's exactly my patent. Exactly.

My patent is essentially:
1. Set amp up how you want.
2. Select appropriate model.
3. Set controls on model same as amp.
4. Run matching/profiling routine.

Had no idea - I was just explaining / speculating how I'm pretty sure KPA will "do this" from an internal menu and application process.

Ben

 

[Cirrus]

This might be the stupidest question I've ever asked, but in America, have you noticed that hot dogs are a perfect shape-metaphor for willies?

 

[fretworn]

 

[Orvillain]

 

[ejecta]

That's exactly my patent. Exactly.

My patent is essentially:
1. Set amp up how you want.
2. Select appropriate model.
3. Set controls on model same as amp.
4. Run matching/profiling routine.

In all seriousness and out of curiosity if you have legal standing how does a patent like that work? I mean how do you patent a set of steps? It would be the code under the hood that uses the info from those steps that would seem to be able to be patented?

 

[Sascha Franck]

When I did my "accuracy" video, I had quite a few people across the internet telling me they (all of a sudden!) didn't care about accuracy, and that the Kemper sounded better than my real amp anyway. lol.

So there. Won't say I'm exactly in the same camp, but if there's something I don't care much about, it's "accurate authenticity" or whatever.
And each and every time I had a KPA at my disposal, I found some sounds I enjoyed playing just as much as it gets in modeling land. And that's really all that matters to me.
Never bought one only because for live I want a floorboard affair and when the Stage came out I was sorted already.

 

[MixMinisterMike]

 

[BenIfin]

No one really wants to be able to mess with the tonestack in their profile. They want it to sound imperceptible to their real amp.

Hey !

Cant say I agree with this ^^ part.

NAM / Tonex ... as good as they are and as good / better as they may get ... will all always suffer from the same problem.

Once you change any control, you immediately begin moving away from the "capture integrity" - the more you tweak the G/B/M/T the "less accurate" your Capture becomes .... even the best AI can only "guess" how each change should sound like.

Now that's not an issue as you / many others may love the "tweaked" NAM / Tonex Captures - I personally find the G/B/M/T on my Tonex Pedal to be extremely musical and pleasing ... but as of 0.7.2, I don't care at all for how NAM [currently] sounds when I do the same things - but that's just me.

Even though this KPA tech is backwards compatible, it will [should] shine most when doing a new Profile from Scratch with the "KPA Amp Channel" as part of the profiling process.

In short, what CK is saying is that if you do your profile this way, the new Liquid Profile G/B/M/T/P etc.... in the final KPA profile will respond the same way as the original Amp - that's a pretty big thing / step forward i.m.o.

Foe example, no need for 2,439 different AC30 Profiles ....set you real AC30 to 12:00 across the board ... set the KPA AC30 Amp Channel Settings to 12:00 across the board .... done .... tweak to your hearts content and you Profiles Integrity is maintained at all settings

There are only 2 people I would trust to pull this off ..... Cliff and CK

Ben

 

[Orvillain]

So there. Won't say I'm exactly in the same camp, but if there's something I don't care much about, it's "accurate authenticity" or whatever.
And each and every time I had a KPA at my disposal, I found some sounds I enjoyed playing just as much as it gets in modeling land. And that's really all that matters to me.
Never bought one only because for live I want a floorboard affair and when the Stage came out I was sorted already.

FWIW, I always found I was happier with the tones when I turned up the definition parameter. But I always found it quite finnicky to dial in.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Or do you mean you'd drool all day long about the ability to mix and match tonestacks from one type of amp with the topology, tubes, etc. of another?

Precisely. Authentic tonestacks of Marshalls are boring and ineffective, so why not have another one?