Helix Talk
- Thread starter Alex Kenivel
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Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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When the XL Stomp was on my board I noticed the signal chain was backwards.
ie. a "traditional" guitar effects chain is from right to left.
Same observation. Zoom pedals allow you to flip their displayed direction (I think TC's Plethora pedals as well).
dronerstone
Shredder
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Tweak, tweak, tweak...
Honestly, as a huuuuuge "NIRd", I've spent good amounts of time with Helix/HX stuff looking for Kurt Cobain's toanz and was even able to achieve a legit "mock Poly Chorus" (using a chorus and a delay in series) for those coveted yet chaotic "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter" sounds.
Having the original units at hand to A/B helps a big deal though.
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helix is so freaking cool. ive been working on my other main preset for when our bassist isn't there. its meant to go to my guitar amps and our bass amp.
top row is my guitar stuff, bottom row is an octave down and bass stuff. i use an xlr > 1/4 cable from the helix xlr output to our bass amp and then the 1/4 outs each go to a half stack w my 5153 50w and quilter tone block 200.
snapshots are clean guitar only, dirty guitar only, guitar and bass, bass only.
its really fun what you can do with those 4 sounds and control all volume differences easily for each snapshot. effects row i still have my momentary octave up and down on the guitar signal too and then like a phaser and crazy reverb and delay for noise sections. its a lot of fun.
obviously playing with a bassist is way better but this is a cool option to have that doesn't require really require any more other equipment than we already have setup which is cool. thinking about how you would do this with pedals makes my head spin lololol.
top row is my guitar stuff, bottom row is an octave down and bass stuff. i use an xlr > 1/4 cable from the helix xlr output to our bass amp and then the 1/4 outs each go to a half stack w my 5153 50w and quilter tone block 200.
snapshots are clean guitar only, dirty guitar only, guitar and bass, bass only.
its really fun what you can do with those 4 sounds and control all volume differences easily for each snapshot. effects row i still have my momentary octave up and down on the guitar signal too and then like a phaser and crazy reverb and delay for noise sections. its a lot of fun.
obviously playing with a bassist is way better but this is a cool option to have that doesn't require really require any more other equipment than we already have setup which is cool. thinking about how you would do this with pedals makes my head spin lololol.
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Lele
Groupie
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- 91
Is this "defect" what Mr Aiken explains here? -> https://aikenamps.com/index.php/technical-q-a
(scroll at about half of the page at the question "What is "swirl"?")
I'd say that setting "Ripple" and "Hum" at zero, low sag, very high Bias, very low Bias X, low (or not too high) master volume this effect should be less noticeable.
I will copy and paste the information from Aiken Amps:
Q:What is "swirl"?
A: "Swirl"is a dynamically-changing, slightly "phasey" sound as a note or chord decays, which is common to some tube amps. Typically, "swirl" is caused by a midrange "dip" or varying duty-cycle change in a clipped square wave that changes position as the note decays, giving a sort of mild phase shifter effect.
What happens is that first the phase inverter or output stage clips and produces a flat square wave. As the note decays, the signal level decreases, and the midrange frequencies start getting "unclipped" (either by the fact that their frequency band level is lower, or by phase cancellations due to the unequal phase shift with respect to frequency caused by tone controls and other RC phase shifts that occur in a gain stage) and show up as a "dip" in the top of the square wave, which will move back and forth along the top as the fundamental and other harmonics shift the operating point. Even if the clipping ratio isn't extreme enough to show the "dip" on the scope, the duty-cycle of the square wave will usually be dynamically changing as well.
Since the preamp stages are all AC-coupled to each other, the operating point shifts as the signal gets smaller, due to slight "blocking" distortion, where the gain stage clamps the top peak to a point slightly above it's cathode voltage, while allowing the wave to still increase in the negative direction. As the signal decays, it shifts upward and changes the duty-cycle of the clipping. It is this ever-changing shifting of the operating point that causes the "swirl" effect. The trick to good "swirl" is in the correct staging of the gain and frequency breakpoints of each gain stage in the amp, particularly in the phase inverter and output stage.
A similar effect can be caused by too much drive from the phase inverter to the output tubes. As the note decays, a riding "buzz" can be heard coming in and out. This is crossover distortion aggravated by too much signal swing to the output tube grids. Reducing the signal levels at the output of the phase inverter will cure this.
Another cause of a "swirly" sound is a parasitic oscillation that is riding on the output signal, causing intermodulation distortion.
Lastly, power supply ripple causing intermodulation artifacts when it mixes with the audio can create a "swirly" sound. This is usually an annoying, non-harmonically-related overtone that rides on the note. If you look at the signal on a scope with the timebase set long enough to see a few cycles of the mains frequency, you can see the 120Hz (or 100Hz) full-wave rectified triangular ripple superimposed on the waveform. If you are looking at a single cycle of the input signal, you can see a "fuzziness" on the top and bottom of the waveform. This effect is most noticeable when the amp output stage is overdriven and the power supply sags. You won't normally see or hear it on a clean waveform.
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James Freeman
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,757
George Lynch with a Helix
Still using his real Phase 90 Script, because... reasons.
I don't need GL or Jeff Loomis or whoever to tell me the Helix is great, I know that already.
Still using his real Phase 90 Script, because... reasons.
I don't need GL or Jeff Loomis or whoever to tell me the Helix is great, I know that already.
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George Lynch with a Helix
Still using his real Phase 90 Script, because... reasons.
I don't need GL or Jeff Loomis or whoever to tell me the Helix is great, I know that already.
Helix has had a really good Soldano sim since launch, so I'm not surprised.
I would be surprised if he were just using the Brit Plexi Brt model, but stranger things have happened.
Los-D
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,557
George Lynch with a Helix
Still using his real Phase 90 Script, because... reasons.
I don't need GL or Jeff Loomis or whoever to tell me the Helix is great, I know that already.
Wicked!
Sensation
Los-D
Shredder
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Man, even in the old (gulp) AX2 amp the Soldano was my favorite for high gain (Presets 12A-D)
TubeStack
Rock Star
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- 3,038
George Lynch with a Helix
Still using his real Phase 90 Script, because... reasons.
I don't need GL or Jeff Loomis or whoever to tell me the Helix is great, I know that already.
Hey that's cool, is it just for effects? He's mentioned he doesn't like amp models at all.
… yes, just checked the Reddit.
I totally get why he needs the real Phase 90.
Lysander
Shredder
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Is he using Helix for amp sims? I recall watching an interview where he mentioned trying to go the Fractal route, but just never gelling with it.
HomespunEffects
Shredder
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- 1,148
Yeah, that’s one is really good.
pipelineaudio
Shredder
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He used to carry around that marshall MIDI JMP-1 thing for teaching., demos and last minute gigs and things. he pretty much sounds like him no matter what he plays through. I was trying to get that thing off of him for years and then those Recto Recording Pres came out so I got those instead
pipelineaudio
Shredder
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Has Digital Igloo weighted in on that artefact Mirror profiles was showing?
HomespunEffects
Shredder
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Lele
Groupie
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- 91
I guess it's unlikely, and anyway ->
Helix Talk
We did a show with a US Nirvana Tribute (Nirvanna) and guitar and bass were using HX direct and they sounded huge. They'd clearly taken the time to get the sounds right and I was really impressed with how convincing the mod sounds were.
thegearforum.com
Q:What is "swirl"?
A: "Swirl"is a dynamically-changing, slightly "phasey" sound as a note or chord decays, which is common to some tube amps. Typically, "swirl" is caused by a midrange "dip" or varying duty-cycle change in a clipped square wave that changes position as the note decays, giving a sort of mild phase shifter effect.
What happens is that first the phase inverter or output stage clips and produces a flat square wave. As the note decays, the signal level decreases, and the midrange frequencies start getting "unclipped" (either by the fact that their frequency band level is lower, or by phase cancellations due to the unequal phase shift with respect to frequency caused by tone controls and other RC phase shifts that occur in a gain stage) and show up as a "dip" in the top of the square wave, which will move back and forth along the top as the fundamental and other harmonics shift the operating point. Even if the clipping ratio isn't extreme enough to show the "dip" on the scope, the duty-cycle of the square wave will usually be dynamically changing as well.
Since the preamp stages are all AC-coupled to each other, the operating point shifts as the signal gets smaller, due to slight "blocking" distortion, where the gain stage clamps the top peak to a point slightly above it's cathode voltage, while allowing the wave to still increase in the negative direction. As the signal decays, it shifts upward and changes the duty-cycle of the clipping. It is this ever-changing shifting of the operating point that causes the "swirl" effect. The trick to good "swirl" is in the correct staging of the gain and frequency breakpoints of each gain stage in the amp, particularly in the phase inverter and output stage.
A similar effect can be caused by too much drive from the phase inverter to the output tubes. As the note decays, a riding "buzz" can be heard coming in and out. This is crossover distortion aggravated by too much signal swing to the output tube grids. Reducing the signal levels at the output of the phase inverter will cure this.
Another cause of a "swirly" sound is a parasitic oscillation that is riding on the output signal, causing intermodulation distortion.
Lastly, power supply ripple causing intermodulation artifacts when it mixes with the audio can create a "swirly" sound. This is usually an annoying, non-harmonically-related overtone that rides on the note. If you look at the signal on a scope with the timebase set long enough to see a few cycles of the mains frequency, you can see the 120Hz (or 100Hz) full-wave rectified triangular ripple superimposed on the waveform. If you are looking at a single cycle of the input signal, you can see a "fuzziness" on the top and bottom of the waveform. This effect is most noticeable when the amp output stage is overdriven and the power supply sags. You won't normally see or hear it on a clean waveform.
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James Freeman
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,757
It's not 'swirl' because it is in the preamp models too.
Swirl is caused by bias excursion and rc time of the pi coupling caps and the bias pull resistors, the helix "zwing" noise in the distortion decay tails is not it.
Swirl is caused by bias excursion and rc time of the pi coupling caps and the bias pull resistors, the helix "zwing" noise in the distortion decay tails is not it.
EOengineer
Shredder
- Messages
- 1,706
In certain situations I’ve experienced “the swirl” with my Dual Rectifier and it’s a fairly pronounced effect that (oddly) I noticed more when listening to someone else play the amp. It really does sound like a subtle phaser was left on in the loop or something.I guess it's unlikely, and anyway ->
Helix Talk
We did a show with a US Nirvana Tribute (Nirvanna) and guitar and bass were using HX direct and they sounded huge. They'd clearly taken the time to get the sounds right and I was really impressed with how convincing the mod sounds were.
Q:What is "swirl"?
A: "Swirl"is a dynamically-changing, slightly "phasey" sound as a note or chord decays, which is common to some tube amps. Typically, "swirl" is caused by a midrange "dip" or varying duty-cycle change in a clipped square wave that changes position as the note decays, giving a sort of mild phase shifter effect.
What happens is that first the phase inverter or output stage clips and produces a flat square wave. As the note decays, the signal level decreases, and the midrange frequencies start getting "unclipped" (either by the fact that their frequency band level is lower, or by phase cancellations due to the unequal phase shift with respect to frequency caused by tone controls and other RC phase shifts that occur in a gain stage) and show up as a "dip" in the top of the square wave, which will move back and forth along the top as the fundamental and other harmonics shift the operating point. Even if the clipping ratio isn't extreme enough to show the "dip" on the scope, the duty-cycle of the square wave will usually be dynamically changing as well.
Since the preamp stages are all AC-coupled to each other, the operating point shifts as the signal gets smaller, due to slight "blocking" distortion, where the gain stage clamps the top peak to a point slightly above it's cathode voltage, while allowing the wave to still increase in the negative direction. As the signal decays, it shifts upward and changes the duty-cycle of the clipping. It is this ever-changing shifting of the operating point that causes the "swirl" effect. The trick to good "swirl" is in the correct staging of the gain and frequency breakpoints of each gain stage in the amp, particularly in the phase inverter and output stage.
A similar effect can be caused by too much drive from the phase inverter to the output tubes. As the note decays, a riding "buzz" can be heard coming in and out. This is crossover distortion aggravated by too much signal swing to the output tube grids. Reducing the signal levels at the output of the phase inverter will cure this.
Another cause of a "swirly" sound is a parasitic oscillation that is riding on the output signal, causing intermodulation distortion.
Lastly, power supply ripple causing intermodulation artifacts when it mixes with the audio can create a "swirly" sound. This is usually an annoying, non-harmonically-related overtone that rides on the note. If you look at the signal on a scope with the timebase set long enough to see a few cycles of the mains frequency, you can see the 120Hz (or 100Hz) full-wave rectified triangular ripple superimposed on the waveform. If you are looking at a single cycle of the input signal, you can see a "fuzziness" on the top and bottom of the waveform. This effect is most noticeable when the amp output stage is overdriven and the power supply sags. You won't normally see or hear it on a clean waveform.
I’ve never experienced it in Helix and the clips here def don’t have it.
EOengineer
Shredder
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- 1,706
That would be neat. I guess you could technically achieve simple versions of that with split paths and some crossover EQ.
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