Helix Talk

[avanzzzi]

Didn’t helix do really well in Cliff’s aliasing tests when the TMP came out?

At least that’s what I remember everyone saying. I don’t even really understand the graphs to be honest.

Edit: I take that back. I understand Cliff's graphs. What I don't understand are the blue and orange ripply sunsets posted earlier in this thread, but they look cool.

Maybe there's a little more than aliasing causing that effect.

 

[Sascha Franck]

View attachment 26487

Lame T-Shirt

View attachment 26488

Cool T-Shirt
(main colour still debatable, I'd rather have it inverted)

So, designwise, HX @ 44/88 has the lead.

 

[EOengineer]

Maybe there's a little more than aliasing causing that effect.

Do you have expertise in DSP engineering? I’d be interested in knowing what else that could be. It’s being picked up by tools that seem intended to pick up aliasing artifacts.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Do you have expertise in DSP engineering? I’d be interested in knowing what else that could be. It’s being picked up by tools that seem intended to pick up aliasing artifacts.

I honestly don’t think it’s (directly) related to aliasing, I don’t think my spectrogram images really show aliasing either. It just shows some weirdness filtering down from the high end.

Aliasing could be a factor, but it doesn’t sound like aliasing to me.

What I don't understand are the blue and orange ripply sunsets posted earlier in this thread, but they look cool.

They’re just spectrograms of the audio I posted, except I just isolated a single note rather than the entire audio. It’s just a way to visualise what’s going on with the frequency content over time - during the decay there is some weird stuff happening that is different to real amps or other modelling platforms. It was an easy way to visualise what I am hearing.

 

[Elf]

I honestly don’t think it’s (directly) related to aliasing, I don’t think my spectrogram images really show aliasing either. It just shows some weirdness filtering down from the high end.

Aliasing could be a factor, but it doesn’t sound like aliasing to me.


They’re just spectrograms of the audio I posted, except I just isolated a single note rather than the entire audio. It’s just a way to visualise what’s going on with the frequency content over time - during the decay there is some weird stuff happening that is different to real amps or other modelling platforms. It was an easy way to visualise what I am hearing.

I’m still trying to replicate the effect with no luck, I assumed that there is no IRs in your recordings right?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I’m still trying to replicate the effect with no luck, I assumed that there is no IRs in your recordings right?

Yeah, but they’re very audible with an IR on too. I just thought it’s easier to see prior to filtering.

Have you tried the files @avanzzzi posted?

Or if you play some palm mutes like in my example it should be easy to replicate. Any amp with a good amount of gain - particularly the older models exhibit it. Try the Rectifier or SLO perhaps?

 

[I S]

Isn’t it just the natural crossover distortion of the amp, properly modeled, warts and all?

I know exactly the sound we’re talking about on the SLO because I use that amp model so often. It bothered me once I noticed it but then quickly got over myself. Just play, people.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Isn’t it just the natural crossover distortion of the amp, properly modeled, warts and all?

no, as I mentioned, compared to the real thing the warts sound very different

 

[dronerstone]

It bothered me once I noticed it but then quickly got over myself. Just play, people.

I guess it's not about that, so telling people to "just play" is a friendly suggestion for sure, but not the solution.

Generally speaking, the Helix sounds very good and is one of the top-tier modelers - I'm enjoying mine, and I believe most others are enjoying theirs.

I also "just play" when it comes to that specific problem, mainly because I haven't noticed it in any of my presets so far. Then again, I like that people dig deeper on such tech stuff.

Compares right-on to the input leveling debate/thread. It's not like there's no good sounds, e.g. in Two Notes Genome (yes, that again), but... Numbers please?

So, since we're already here in this rabbit hole of a forum (), we might as well try and look closely at the tiniest of details.

 

[avanzzzi]

Do you have expertise in DSP engineering? I’d be interested in knowing what else that could be. It’s being picked up by tools that seem intended to pick up aliasing artifacts.

Not DSP, but comparing with other stuff that we know has aliasing more evident it sounds like something else to me.

I’m still trying to replicate the effect with no luck, I assumed that there is no IRs in your recordings right?

My sample uses stock Helix Mesa cab block.

So, since we're already here in this rabbit hole of a forum (), we might as well try and look closely at the tiniest of details.

I agree, would like to understand it better, even if it is something that can't be fixed. If I were representing a company, I would be happy to have users who pay attention to detail and provide detailed and impartial reports.

I'm doing some experiments with tone match and captures to see if I can phase invert and somehow isolate it.

 

[bikescene]

Is it most of the high gain models that exhibit the weird palm muting behavior? I'm just curious. I tend to gravitate towards only a few of the high models.

 

[mikah912]

Is it most of the high gain models that exhibit the weird palm muting behavior? I'm just curious. I tend to gravitate towards only a few of the high models.

From my understanding, "squirrels" are audible mostly when notes ring out in decay. I don't think palm muting exacerbates or provokes them in any noticeable fashion.

 

[bikescene]

From my understanding, "squirrels" are audible mostly when notes ring out in decay. I don't think palm muting exacerbates or provokes them in any noticeable fashion.

@MirrorProfiles posted a palm muted sound a few pages back. Never listened to closely to observe the farting out sound before, but was just curious if it was present in a lot of the models or in the older models.

 

[sashimi]

It does seem like you have to palm mute to really hear this sound

Perhaps this is a chipmunk or other tree dwelling rodent

 

[MirrorProfiles]

It’s there whether you palm mute or not, and it’s on newer amp models and old ones. And not just high gain amps.

Palm muting with more gain makes it easier to demonstrate it. I can do clips with other amps/tones if it helps but I don’t think there’s any way of “fixing” it without Line 6 doing something their end. It’s just part of the modeling.

 

[norminal]

I can do clips with other amps/tones if it helps

I would love to hear examples of this because I can’t hear it on my end.

 

[Vic Winters]

It’s there whether you palm mute or not, and it’s on newer amp models and old ones. And not just high gain amps.

Palm muting with more gain makes it easier to demonstrate it. I can do clips with other amps/tones if it helps but I don’t think there’s any way of “fixing” it without Line 6 doing something their end. It’s just part of the modeling.

Unrelated, but can you tell if there's a difference in initial signal and decay with the Helix during palm mutes and other modelers/profiles for the same amp at the same settings?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Unrelated, but can you tell if there's a difference in initial signal and decay with the Helix during palm mutes and other modelers/profiles for the same amp at the same settings?

Yep, that’s basically what the spectrogram images show.

I would love to hear examples of this because I can’t hear it on my end.

Possibly the most boring video I can ever do but i’ll try and do it tomorrow. Demonstrating the effect is easy - setting up real amps and other modellers like for like takes more work. Fairest way is for me to reamp each of them at various gain levels I think.

 

[Elf]

It’s there whether you palm mute or not, and it’s on newer amp models and old ones. And not just high gain amps.

Palm muting with more gain makes it easier to demonstrate it. I can do clips with other amps/tones if it helps but I don’t think there’s any way of “fixing” it without Line 6 doing something their end. It’s just part of the modeling.

Please do it, I don’t think I know what you guys are talking about.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Please do it, I don’t think I know what you guys are talking about.

Have you listened to the clips I posted? Maybe it’s easier with a few other points of reference to compare against.

I just listened to them again from my phone, it’s really easy to hear it doing this zippy/filter sweep sound in the decay that doesn’t sound realistic.