Helix Talk

[Lele]

No! The best Helix cab is

2x12 Match H30 ​

 

[holoholo]

I just rediscovered how much I like the 4x12 Greenback 25

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I've been rocking the 1x12 Deluxe lately when I'm not using my 2x12 Greenback IR, since I run through my bassists Deluxe at his studio.

 

[EOengineer]

I have a gig at a small local venue Friday night so I’m touching up presets last minute.

The Helix is supplying FX to the Ceriatone 2204 via send 1. I have the HX 2203 after the send which can go to FOH if they want. The 2204 and cab will be on stage with me.

The Budda is going to be used by guitar 2 with an HXFX. YOLO.

 

[Orvillain]

Can anyone else confirm that the input and output slider in Helix Native are not saved/recalled with presets??

 

[Sascha Franck]

Can anyone else confirm that the input and output slider in Helix Native are not saved/recalled with presets??

Yes. And I think it's the only correct behaviour. If they were saved, compatibility of presets between hard- and software would be broken.
They are saved with host projects and presets, though, so nothing is lost.

 

[Orvillain]

Yes. And I think it's the only correct behaviour. If they were saved, compatibility of presets between hard- and software would be broken.
They are saved with host projects and presets, though, so nothing is lost.

How would compatibility between hardware and software be broken?

 

[Sascha Franck]

How would compatibility between hardware and software be broken?

When you alter the input trim fader, anything dynamic to follow (compressors, drives, amps - obviously I don't need to tell you) would be affected and perform differently, compared to the fader at 0dB. Now, as the hardware doesn't have that input fader, those dynamic changes would be lost in case you've dragged the patch into one of the HX units.

 

[Orvillain]

When you alter the input trim fader, anything dynamic to follow (compressors, drives, amps - obviously I don't need to tell you) would be affected and perform differently, compared to the fader at 0dB. Now, as the hardware doesn't have that input fader, those dynamic changes would be lost in case you've dragged the patch into one of the HX units.

I take your point, but the Helix Native "only" experience is actually pretty degraded because of this. Also, if you think about it... as soon as a user tweaks one of these faders, their expectation has been set. Moving one of those tweaked presets to the hardware, is nearly always going to sound incorrect in terms of gain-staging.

I don't really see how not saving those faders inside the preset fixes anything. The user creates the preset with a -10dB tweak to the input trim. That is what they're expecting the next time they load it in software land. The fact it won't in hardware land, shouldn't change the software only use case - IMO.

I ran into this issue because I saved a bunch of presets in one project, and loaded them up in another project. And I noticed all my rhythm and lead tracks sounded way gainier than they should have.

It is not really feasible to expect people to constantly have to remember what they've set the I/O sliders to, each time they load a project. This seems really backwards to me, again from a Native only experience. I consider this data loss with an annoying workaround. I'd rather they just added the I/O gain trims to the hardware and called it done!

Another thing I discovered this week - EZDrummer3 doesn't save the keymap inside the host project file chunk. Meaning if you have a custom keymap on disk that you're using... then move your project to a machine where that custom keymap doesn't exist... EZD3 will just revert to its standard map. That is major data-loss and should not have left the building like that!!

 

[Lele]

The Budda is going to be used by guitar 2 with an HXFX.

I love your amps!!!
What Helix amp model would you suggest as close as possible to the Budda Superdrive 18?
Is it maybe in the Vox/Matchstick camp?
I remember I tried that Budda amp once many many years ago: I loved it, but at that time I didn't understand, yet, the real importance of a good amp. It was the rack guitar rigs era!

 

[Sascha Franck]

but the Helix Native "only" experience is actually pretty degraded because of this.

Because of the lack of an input trim? Seriously?

Moving one of those tweaked presets to the hardware, is nearly always going to sound incorrect in terms of gain-staging.

Not in case you've adjusted a basic channel strip once, following the recommendations in this thread. My patches now transfer wonderfully well either way.

It is not really feasible to expect people to constantly have to remember what they've set the I/O sliders to, each time they load a project.

You don't have to do that. As said, the slider settings are saved just fine within your DAW projects, channel strip presets and what not. They're just not saved with internal HXN presets as there's no equivalent for them inside the hardware. That's all.

 

[Orvillain]

Because of the lack of an input trim? Seriously?

HX Native doesn't lack an input trim, what are you talking about? The input slider IS your input trim. The output slider IS your output trim.

Compatibility with hardware isn't my concern here. Being able to use a preset in HX Native across different DAW's and new projects is my concern.

I've got roughly 40 projects with Helix Native in them, each one using one or more of my six guitars, and I have no real way of knowing a year later which one I used... and so if I want to take the presets out of those projects and use them in others... I now have to magically know what the correct input trim setting is - or else, I need to go into each instance in each project, and write down the trim, and transfer that to a new project. Bonkers.

Not in case you've adjusted a basic channel strip once, following the recommendations in this thread. My patches now transfer wonderfully well either way.

Please see the very first post, where @James Freeman has tweaked his HX Native internal input trim.

You don't have to do that. As said, the slider settings are saved just fine within your DAW projects, channel strip presets and what not. They're just not saved with internal HXN presets as there's no equivalent for them inside the hardware. That's all.

I'm not using DAW channel strip presets, and I don't want to. I'm just using one instance of HX Native. I expect my trim settings to be carried over from project to project; which to me is the only sensible expectation here.

The Helix hardware could easily ignore these two parameters, and the experience for an end user would be no different.

Scenario 1 (not saving the parameters in the HX preset) - I do some preset design in HX Native - I set the trim. I like the sound. I move the preset to the hardware. It doesn't sound right, because of the input trim difference.
Scenario 2 (Saving the parameters in the HX preset) - I do some preset design in HX Native - I set the trim. I like the sound. I move the preset to the hardware. Hardware doesn't support those trim parameters, so it ignores them. It doesn't sound right, because of the input trim difference.

And the solution is 100% not to tweak my input gain on my interface, because then I fuck my gainstaging for other plugins and hardware.

HX Native should be saving these parameters. End of story.

 

[EOengineer]

I love your amps!!!
What Helix amp model would you suggest as close as possible to the Budda Superdrive 18?
Is it maybe in the Vox/Matchstick camp?
I remember I tried that Budda amp once many many years ago: I loved it, but at that time I didn't understand, yet, the real importance of a good amp. It was the rack guitar rigs era!

Thanks!

That’s a great question because the Budda is sorta Vox meets Marshall meets Dumble or something. I think you could get pretty close with the Matchless DC30 for both clean & crunch/high gain, at least for the tones I use.

 

[Sascha Franck]

HX Native doesn't lack an input trim, what are you talking about?

I was talking about you moaning about not being able to use it, as you'd lose soo much.

or else, I need to go into each instance in each project, and write down the trim, and transfer that to a new project.

Solution: Don't touch the trim. Or calibrate it once and leave it at that (which is what James has been doing, he's not using it as a part of his patching routine but to adjust things to accomodate the used audio interface). Or even better: Use a gain plugin in front of HX Native and save that channel strip in your DAW. No need to ever touch that input fader again. Ideally, you'd chose a mixture of audio interface gain and gain plugin resulting in HX Native to receive exactly the same input level as what it would see on the hardware => 100% hardware compatibility (at least soundwise). Works incredibly well for me.

I'm not using DAW channel strip presets, and I don't want to.

Possibly your loss. Seriously. In my main channel strip preset, I have a gain plugin (freeing up the input trim slider), a tuner (unfortunately not available on HXN) pre HXN and an EQ (quicker than using a block in HXN) and IR loader (way quicker than dealing with IRs inside HXN) post-plugin. Allows me to do a lot of things a lot faster.

The Helix hardware could easily ignore these two parameters, and the experience for an end user would be no different.

The Helix hardware *is* ignoring these two parameters. They just don't exist.
Also, if you really want saveable input levels that bad, why not add a gain block as the first thing in your chain? Did you already use up all 32 blocks?

Scenario 1 (not saving the parameters in the HX preset) - I do some preset design in HX Native - I set the trim. I like the sound. I move the preset to the hardware. It doesn't sound right, because of the input trim difference.
Scenario 2 (Saving the parameters in the HX preset) - I do some preset design in HX Native - I set the trim. I like the sound. I move the preset to the hardware. Hardware doesn't support those trim parameters, so it ignores them. It doesn't sound right, because of the input trim difference.

This is exactly why you ideally do it as described in the plugin leveling thread.
Set your interface input level exactly once (or remember where it was). Ideally you'd just keep it all the way dialed down (works pretty well for me and apparently for plenty of other folks, too). Then either use a gain plugin or the input slider of HXN to make sure it's receiving precisely the same level as it would on the DI/USB channel when using your HX device as an interface.
Once done with that, eiher save it as a channel or plugin preset - as you can see, you don't even need to use channel strips. Just save the plugins settings from within your host. These will contain the input fader settings. Use that as your start up patch all the time and you're in hardware compatibility mode.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Being able to use a preset in HX Native across different DAW's and new projects is my concern.

Not suggesting our decision is infallible, but the primary reason Helix Native has an input slider is because so few people have the right kind of instrument input on their interface. And if they do, they don't set it up correctly. If someone owns both Native and Helix/HX hardware, in a perfect world, they'd set the input level to match so they sound the same.

So it's not an input gain as much as it is a compensating trim.

I can totally see a Global Setting in Native where one can set the default input trim so that any future instances would also be optimized.

In a pinch, one could add a Volume/Pan > Gain block at the beginning if they needed per-preset input gain.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Not suggesting our decision is infallible, but the primary reason Helix Native has an input slider is because so few people have the right kind of instrument input on their interface.

This is all fine (and it really is), but it should possibly somewhere be written in bold letters that these two sliders are not a part of any HX presets. I actually happen to think of it as a good thing as I could've used that to set my input levels the same as when using HX hardware, then save it as a default in Logics plugin menu => hardware compatibility all the time (as long as I don't touch my interface's input gain or at least set it back to zero). I only used an additional gain plugin inside Logic because switching it off almost 100% nails the Input Pad = off setting of the HX Stomp, so I can simulate that as well.

 

[Orvillain]

Not suggesting our decision is infallible, but the primary reason Helix Native has an input slider is because so few people have the right kind of instrument input on their interface. And if they do, they don't set it up correctly. If someone owns both Native and Helix/HX hardware, in a perfect world, they'd set the input level to match so they sound the same.

So it's not an input gain as much as it is a compensating trim.

I can totally see a Global Setting in Native where one can set the default input trim so that any future instances would also be optimized.

In a pinch, one could add a Volume/Pan > Gain block at the beginning if they needed per-preset input gain.

Yeah I get you. I may do that with these presets (volume block to do my attenuation) because I want these specific patches I've made to always sound the same with the right-guitars; hardware kinda be damned.

Sascha is expecting me to use another plugin or my DAW's channel strip preset functionality for that, and I just don't wanna because it breaks the entire flow state having to mess around with extra functionality in the DAW.


PS: More or less the reason I used it is in a compensatory fashion. I wasn't trying to conform the plugin to any idealized level on hardware or other gear. I was really just using the trim as a quick shortcut to rolling down the gain throughout the signal path.

I made the preset with a guitar with low-output pickups, but wanted to retrack some other parts with the same core tone with a different guitar which has way hotter pickups, so I wanted to apply a 6dB reduction. At the time (this was a year ago!!) I didn't realise that these parameters didn't save with the preset; which is why I didn't add a gain block.

Ho hum. I guess I just need to go over these projects and resave the presets with a new block in there that does the trim for me. Not the end of the world, but unexpected!

I'm not looking for a default trim as such. Because the trim value would change with any guitar. I'm looking for the input trim to be dynamically set based on what preset I load. As you say, the gain block does that.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I put a silver sharpie dot next to my mic preamp knob position where it is calibrated the same as Helix Floor

 

[Sascha Franck]

Sascha is expecting me to use another plugin or my DAW's channel strip preset functionality for that, and I just don't wanna because it breaks the entire flow state having to mess around with extra functionality in the DAW.

Just that it doesn't because you do it once and forget about it afterwards.

 

[Orvillain]

Just that it doesn't because you do it once and forget about it afterwards.

Nope. But hey... you're always right about everything, and everyone has to work the way you work, or else they're an idiot. I get it. More power to you. Keep rockin' in the free world, etc etc etc, yadda yadda yadda, blah.