Helix Talk

[Sascha Franck]

Nope. But hey... you're always right about everything, and everyone has to work the way you work, or else they're an idiot.

I'm not even remotely saying you're an idiot, but in this case you seem to miss out on some incredibly useful things. Possibly won't help you with the current situation, but might be worth a lot in the future.
Have a look:

No extra DAW steps and yet HXN shows up with the input slider adjusted on a "fresh instance" (you would obviously want this to deliver the "perfect" level in combination with your interface input, I only dragged it all the way down for better visibility).
As said, after dialing in the input level of your interface (which you will also stick to), you do that once and achieve hardware compatibility forever.

 

[Sleezy E]

I take your point, but the Helix Native "only" experience is actually pretty degraded because of this. Also, if you think about it... as soon as a user tweaks one of these faders, their expectation has been set. Moving one of those tweaked presets to the hardware, is nearly always going to sound incorrect in terms of gain-staging.

I don't really see how not saving those faders inside the preset fixes anything. The user creates the preset with a -10dB tweak to the input trim. That is what they're expecting the next time they load it in software land. The fact it won't in hardware land, shouldn't change the software only use case - IMO.

I ran into this issue because I saved a bunch of presets in one project, and loaded them up in another project. And I noticed all my rhythm and lead tracks sounded way gainier than they should have.

It is not really feasible to expect people to constantly have to remember what they've set the I/O sliders to, each time they load a project. This seems really backwards to me, again from a Native only experience. I consider this data loss with an annoying workaround. I'd rather they just added the I/O gain trims to the hardware and called it done!

Another thing I discovered this week - EZDrummer3 doesn't save the keymap inside the host project file chunk. Meaning if you have a custom keymap on disk that you're using... then move your project to a machine where that custom keymap doesn't exist... EZD3 will just revert to its standard map. That is major data-loss and should not have left the building like that!!

If you record through the hx hardware you never have to adjust the input gain if you reamp through native


..and as was already said.. the daw saves the faders in the project. I realize that doesn't help if you tweaked the input gain before setting up your presets, but at least you could use that to reference what you set the faders to

 

[Alex Kenivel]

So now the presets I've made to recreate the sound of the EVH 5153 50w Stealth sound nothing like my amp (thanks ears). I'll probably be taking those down if I can find a better full amp model replacement to replicate the full amp.

Today I was messing around with preamp matching and got really close with the Das Benzin Mega preamp model.

Stealth Settings:

Das Benzin Settings:

A/B audio:
First are some split coil sounds. You can hear a blip when I change from modeled preamp to physical preamp. Then some humbucker cowboy chords, followed by some chugging with the Pillars on Mode 2 driving the front end.


Methinks they're pretty damn close, some subtle differences in the extreme low end from the cab in the room, especially when pushed.

 

[Orvillain]

If you record through the hx hardware you never have to adjust the input gain if you reamp through native


..and as was already said.. the daw saves the faders in the project. I realize that doesn't help if you tweaked the input gain before setting up your presets, but at least you could use that to reference what you set the faders to

I don't record through the HX hardware. I record through a Neve Designs DI box, into my Discrete 8 Pro SC.

The reason is, my DI's are not just for Helix Native. I sometimes reamp them through Helix hardware, Axe FX III hardware, and real amps.

 

[Sleezy E]

I don't record through the HX hardware. I record through a Neve Designs DI box, into my Discrete 8 Pro SC.

The reason is, my DI's are not just for Helix Native. I sometimes reamp them through Helix hardware, Axe FX III hardware, and real amps.

100% get it. I just don't see L6 ever changing the way native works.

I'm sure you've seen this. It would keep your DI's consistent

Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

Note: Please don't quote this entire post, I may want to edit and add information or clarify things. You can just reply without hitting the reply button, Thank You! My method of calibrating your Audio Interface and Helix Native to match Helix hardware. The result is more accurate gain from...

thegearforum.com

 

[Orvillain]

I genuinely don't know why you guys keep linking that thread. Please read it. I post several times in it. I know all about calibrating input levels for plugins. This isn't that.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I don't record through the HX hardware. I record through a Neve Designs DI box, into my Discrete 8 Pro SC.

And still, the ways to achieve ideal HXN input levels (also including hardware compatibility) apply to that signal chain as well.

 

[Sascha Franck]

This isn't that.

No, it's about you mistakenly using the input trim for sound design duties. And no, that's not meant snarky or anything at all. And yet, they're not originally meant to be used for that purpose.

 

[Orvillain]

Have a turd emoji!

 

[Sascha Franck]

You can throw turds as me all day long. Doesn't change much.

 

[Orvillain]

it's about you mistakenly using the input trim for sound design duties.

Absolute bollocks. Here's some food for thought.... if the input trim wasn't intended to be used as a "sound design" tool... then why would Line6 allow you to automate it using DAW host parameters?

The simple fact is, the input and output trim parameters are perfectly acceptable parameters to use for the purposes of sound design. Just because you don't think they should be, doesn't mean that is some objective fact that I'm ignorant of.

These sorts of things have recommended uses. But they don't have prescribed uses, and they don't have prohibited uses.

Simply put - there's no reason you couldn't or shouldn't use the input trim as a pseudo volume pedal replacement, for example. Which is close to what I was doing with it.

The thread you linked about calibrating input levels is all about making sure that people understand what they are doing. @MirrorProfiles and @James Freeman are by no means telling people that they HAVE to use the input trim parameter in a specific way. That's just your misreading of the entire concept, clouding your judgement.

 

[Sascha Franck]

if the input trim wasn't intended to be used as a "sound design" tool... then why would Line6 allow you to automate it using DAW host parameters?

Because it might be easier to just leave it in instead of explicitely taking it out.

The simple fact is, the input and output trim parameters are perfectly acceptable parameters to use for the purposes of sound design.

Of course. But they're not meant to be.

Just because you don't think they should be, doesn't mean that is some objective fact that I'm ignorant of.

Just because your abusing them for sound design duties (plus complaining that they're not saved with the patch) doesn't mean they're meant for that purpose.

And in the end, well, let's put it that way: You can use them for your special sound design adventures all you want. But you should then as well learn the patch saving features of your DAW. Because the trim faders aren't saved within HX patches. For pretty good reasons. As easy as that.

 

[Orvillain]

I've said my piece. I'll let the thread move onto other discussions now.

 

[EOengineer]

JFC the romantic tension in here. Get a room guys.

 

[Sascha Franck]

JFC the romantic tension in here. Get a room guys.

Orvillain and me love doing it in public. Especially in churches.

 

[pipelineaudio]

One of the reaper users has an instance of JS volume before helix native and has a preset for it for each of his guitars

 

[DieSchmalle]

So now the presets I've made to recreate the sound of the EVH 5153 50w Stealth sound nothing like my amp (thanks ears). I'll probably be taking those down if I can find a better full amp model replacement to replicate the full amp.

Today I was messing around with preamp matching and got really close with the Das Benzin Mega preamp model.

Stealth Settings:
View attachment 22318

Das Benzin Settings:
View attachment 22317

A/B audio:
First are some split coil sounds. You can hear a blip when I change from modeled preamp to physical preamp. Then some humbucker cowboy chords, followed by some chugging with the Pillars on Mode 2 driving the front end.


Methinks they're pretty damn close, some subtle differences in the extreme low end from the cab in the room, especially when pushed.

I took your Benzin pre settings for a ride - nice! And yes - pretty pretty close.

Funny and kind of weird how that preamp is much closer than the PV or Vitriol.
I found a similar sound in the Placater Dirty pre though: D 2.5, B 2.5, M 3.5, T 6.5, Ma 2.2, Sag 2.0, C45 on, other switches off.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

I took your Benzin pre settings for a ride - nice! And yes - pretty pretty close.

Funny and kind of weird how that preamp is much closer than the PV or Vitriol.
I found a similar sound in the Placater Dirty pre though: D 2.5, B 2.5, M 3.5, T 6.5, Ma 2.2, Sag 2.0, C45 on, other switches off.

Ooh, I'm gonna have to try that, thanks!

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[Alex Kenivel]

View attachment 22345