Helix Talk

[SillyOctpuss]

How so?

I think captures work great until you want to change something. If it's an amp I know well I don't think changing the gain reacts like the amp that was captured originally.

 

[dk_ace]

How so?

Take an amp like the grammatico gsg in helix, that amp can do literally dozens of very different sounds from multiple types of clean sounds all the way to multiple types of relatively high gain sounds and everything in between. You can get all of that range quickly with a few knobs with an amp model. You would need to make many captures to cover that one amps useful sounds and manage them all.

D

 

[EOengineer]

Take an amp like the grammatico gsg in helix, that amp can do literally dozens of very different sounds from multiple types of clean sounds all the way to multiple types of relatively high gain sounds and everything in between. You can get all of that range quickly with a few knobs with an amp model. You would need to make many captures to cover that one amps useful sounds and manage them all.

D

I understand that, but realistically how often are people changing the settings on their amps? Out of my 7-8 amps, I can’t think of any where the settings have changed over the last year or more.

It just seems like an excessively broad statement to say modeling is superior for everyone because of that reason. At best we can say it’s a reason why modeling might be better for some folks.

 

[holoholo]

I understand that, but realistically how often are people changing the settings on their amps? Out of my 7-8 amps, I can’t think of any where the settings have changed over the last year or more.

It just seems like an excessively broad statement to say modeling is superior for everyone because of that reason. At best we can say it’s a reason why modeling might be better for some folks.

I do quite often as I like to find new tones or adjust as needed at the gig. I much rather do that then flip through profiles.

 

[Gearzilla]

Modeling is more easy and flexible varied settings wise. Especially if someone is swapping guitars in and out that have various types of pickups. Unless of course someone is making snapshots of their own analog gear taking into account the various permutations—which is of course going to be way more labor intensive than just adjusting a model.

 

[dk_ace]

I understand that, but realistically how often are people changing the settings on their amps? Out of my 7-8 amps, I can’t think of any where the settings have changed over the last year or more.

It just seems like an excessively broad statement to say modeling is superior for everyone because of that reason. At best we can say it’s a reason why modeling might be better for some folks.

On a simple amp like a plexi, I pretty much set it and forget it. On the GSG, Ive tried lots of things and found many that it is excellent for tons of things unlike a lot of amps. So it’s one where you can find yourself using lots of different settings.

I didn’t make the broad comment you’re referring to, James can speak for himself on that one.

For me, I generally prefer to have the knobs available to get the full capability of the amp easily on a whim. I can’t think of a scenario where I would rather have just a profile if I had a choice.

D

 

[holoholo]

Alright I got to play the Grammatico GSG a bit more. I didn't realize how farty it can get when trying to go higher gain. Anyone have tips? I try lowering the bass but it just thins out the tone. I'm thinking I need to cut the bass going into the amp then add bass back post-amp? I don't have much experience with dialing in Dumble clones in real life. The clean tones and OD are great. It also takes pedals really well.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Every time I read the thread title; I read it in the singing voice of Stephen Pearcy to the tune of Body Talk. Which I know makes Alex a happy boy

 

[dk_ace]

Alright I got to play the Grammatico GSG a bit more. I didn't realize how farty it can get when trying to go higher gain. Anyone have tips? I try lowering the bass but it just thins out the tone. I'm thinking I need to cut the bass going into the amp then add bass back post-amp? I don't have much experience with dialing in Dumble clones in real life. The clean tones and OD are great. It also takes pedals really well.

The tone stack works quite differently in jazz mode particularly the interaction between the bass and mid controls which may or may not solve your issue. I tried it last week and went back to rock in the end, but I was using a strat that day I seem to recall a different outcome with a HB guitar.

There is a lot of preamp bass in the tone that really shows up in higher gain tones with humbuckers. You can lower bass enough to remove that and then get it back with your cab choice or a post-eq, but it’s a trade off because then you also start to lose part of what makes that model special.

D

 

[holoholo]

The tone stack works quite differently in jazz mode particularly the interaction between the bass and mid controls which may or may not solve your issue. I tried it last week and went back to rock in the end, but I was using a strat that day I seem to recall a different outcome with a HB guitar.

Playing a strat. Going to give Jazz a try again. I liked Rock but haven't explored Jazz mode enough. Even with a strat, the higher gain tones are fart city.

There is a lot of preamp bass in the tone that really shows up in higher gain tones with humbuckers. You can lower bass enough to remove that and then get it back with your cab choice or a post-eq, but it’s a trade off because then you also start to lose part of what makes that model special.

D

Exactly. This is what I'm finding out.

 

[dk_ace]

Playing a strat. Going to give Jazz a try again. I liked Rock but haven't explored Jazz mode enough. Even with a strat, the higher gain tones are fart city.


Exactly. This is what I'm finding out.

Another thing I just remembered, I found that the IR/cab had a lot to do with it. I was finding that preamp bass to be a big problem for me with close miced stuff, it was much less an issue when the mic was back 2.5-4+ inches. Usually I’m pretty happy with a 57 on the grill to get started with something but with the gsg it gave me some issues. That proximity effect that works nicely with a lot of amps did not play well with the gsg. Once I backed the mic up that amp got a lot easier to dial to my satisfaction.

D

 

[EOengineer]

I still need to sit down with the GSG. All the rave reviews are exciting.

 

[DieSchmalle]

Exactly. This is what I'm finding out.

A post amp boost with a Low Shelf at 200Hz or a bit higher should do the job.

 

[dk_ace]

I still need to sit down with the GSG. All the rave reviews are exciting.

I never thought I would like it, being a dumble which is a sound that I like to hear some other people use occasionally but it’s never struck me as my thing. It’s way more versatile than that one thing, which I never expected, and it has a certain feel which is really addicting. It’s somehow nicely compressed, but still easily allows every nuance of your playing through and still has a great dynamic range when you need to dig in and make some notes pop. It also creates some of the most gorgeous and punchy clean sounds that I’ve found out of any modeler or real amp. The Eq spectrum it can hit is vast. For fun I matched it to some other amps that are completely unrelated and it was able to get sounds I never thought a dumble could do. Anyway… it’s a lot of fun…

The only other new thing I’ve checked out in the new firmware is the new rotary which I really like a lot too. Need to get around to the rest of the new goodies…

D

 

[EOengineer]

I never thought I would like it, being a dumble which is a sound that I like to hear some other people use occasionally but it’s never struck me as my thing. It’s way more versatile than that one thing, which I never expected, and it has a certain feel which is really addicting. It’s somehow nicely compressed, but still easily allows every nuance of your playing through and still has a great dynamic range when you need to dig in and make some notes pop. It also creates some of the most gorgeous and punchy clean sounds that I’ve found out of any modeler or real amp. The Eq spectrum it can hit is vast. For fun I matched it to some other amps that are completely unrelated and it was able to get sounds I never thought a dumble could do.

The additional context is helpful, thanks. We might have similar impressions of previous dumble models.

I’ve always thought I should like dumbles. In part because they seem so generally revered, but also because I’ve always LOVED Mark series boogies, which some camps seem to point to for “sort of” dumblesque tones.

It just never worked out for me in practice. Where a wound up blackface amp kinda chimes and bounces, and old boogies kinda chirp and bark, I’ve experienced dumbles to flub and rasp. I could just never make it work for me.

I recently had that impression challenged by a couple captures in my Tonex pedal. I need to sit down and spend real time with them, but I do get the sense there is a “there” there and maybe I’m starting to get it. Maybe the L6 dumble will be a continuation of that.

 

[Perrymusica]

Hello! I share with you a match that they commissioned me, of the sound of a kemper profile by Soldano + 4x12 with V30 to have it inside Helix. What do you think of the result? I love the HX STOMP.

 

[James Freeman]

Welcome Perrymusica.
Your result is good, now try to do that without an advanced auto-eq in your DAW.

I use MFreeformEqualizer, it's a very accurate infinite band auto-eq with +-64dB range.
Analyze the 'source' youtube/music then play exactly the same riff as 'target' with the Helix and click "match target to source", apply eq to a single sample (dirac), normalize and export as IR, very simple.

 

[DieSchmalle]

Welcome Perrymusica.
Your result is good, now try to do that without an advanced auto-eq in your DAW.

I use MFreeformEqualizer, it's a very accurate infinite band auto-eq with +-64dB range.
Analyze the 'source' youtube/music then play exactly the same riff as 'target' with the Helix and click "match target to source", apply eq to a single sample (dirac), normalize and export as IR, very simple.

View attachment 7968

Side request: could you measure the original YT video's audio vs the @Perrymusica quote (when he listens to the video) and find out if there is any spectral degradation due to extra (twice applied) YT audio compression?
In other words: do we hear the same spectrum in @Perrymusica 's video and in the original one?

 

[Perrymusica]

Welcome Perrymusica.
Your result is good, now try to do that without an advanced auto-eq in your DAW.

I use MFreeformEqualizer, it's a very accurate infinite band auto-eq with +-64dB range.
Analyze the 'source' youtube/music then play exactly the same riff as 'target' with the Helix and click "match target to source", apply eq to a single sample (dirac), normalize and export as IR, very simple.

View attachment 7968

Hello James! Thanks for listening and responding! what you hear is the HX stomp online via Usb, it is not an equalized recording, it is the amp + IR and at the end the delay of the Stomp is active.

 

[Perrymusica]

Side request: could you measure the original YT video's audio vs the @Perrymusica quote (when he listens to the video) and find out if there is any spectral degradation due to extra (twice applied) YT audio compression?
In other words: do we hear the same spectrum in @Perrymusica 's video and in the original one?

It would be a good test, YouTube always compresses something, the "cloning" sounds better in the "FRFR" in my house than in the video