Helix Talk

[Exluthier]

It's not a stance, per sé—just how our modeling methodology works. AFAIK, Line 6 and UA are two of very few companies that brute-force model everything from the component up, for every model. So if our real amp doesn't have that mod, it won't be in the model either. The only way for our model to have a bunch of mods is for us to physically mod the amp (perhaps in multiple ways) and remeasure (almost) everything for every possible mod combination. Doable, but extremely time-consuming. Even un-modded amps can take a month or longer.

Whereas if we were going purely by schematics with a black box-type methodology, we'd just add the mod code in as an extra Lego or set of coefficient changes. Much easier, but it rarely accounts for unpredictable or hyper-accurate behavior, for better or worse.

So I'm curious how that approach works for something like the Plexi or any of the non-master volume amps? I know the with the master on 10 they're essentially working like stock but is the master modeling an actual mod to the circuit?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, why doesn't the Swell Delay have a real mix parameter? The swell function is always affecting the dry signal as well, so the mix parameter is actually only working in the feedback path.
There should at least be some "unaffected dry" switch.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Any other fans here of the Archetype clean + 4x12 Cartog Guv 4x12 greenback?

 

[BahamaDada]

Ubercool, that the L6 Originals suck so little DSP. Could fit this whole thing in one line (with stereo looper and ambiance reverb).

EDIT: And if you snapshit the high gainers (Oblivion and Voltage (with Boost)) down to 1,0 Drive it gets almost clean. Clean enough for a band setting I put myself in.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Should you just not mess around with the EQ and use the stock amp as intended?

This happens too often. I pick the Grammatico GSG. I pick a cab that I like. I start tweaking. I like the tone at some point. I compared to the Super Reverb preset that I am happy with. And, .. it almost sounds the same.

 

[EOengineer]

snapshit the high gainers

 

[GTR37]

You just have to watch a 24 minutes video explaining why it works.

No

 

[Progressive_disclosure]

Ubercool, that the L6 Originals suck so little DSP. Could fit this whole thing in one line (with stereo looper and ambiance reverb).
View attachment 37165


EDIT: And if you snapshit the high gainers (Oblivion and Voltage (with Boost)) down to 1,0 Drive it gets almost clean. Clean enough for a band setting I put myself in.

It’s pretty cool that if you’re FX needs are slim, you can set up the Clarity and for example Oblivion with snapshots on a HX Stomp to get a dual channel preset.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Any hope on the horizon for preset copy and paste corruption? This is the main bugaboo I face with the helix and what keeps me from actually trying new sounds and is completely confidence sapping.

 

[banned]

Should you just not mess around with the EQ and use the stock amp as intended?

This happens too often. I pick the Grammatico GSG. I pick a cab that I like. I start tweaking. I like the tone at some point. I compared to the Super Reverb preset that I am happy with. And, .. it almost sounds the same.

Many amps are closer than you think in tone - it's the amount of gain and break-up characteristics that can change. Most of the tonal changes come from the cab. I'd say cab contributes 60-70% (if not more) of tone.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Many amps are closer than you think in tone - it's the amount of gain and break-up characteristics that can change. Most of the tonal changes come from the cab. I'd say cab contributes 60-70% (if not more) of tone.

Yeah really interesting but makes sense, they are all children of the Bassman right?

 

[banned]

Yeah really interesting but makes sense, they are all children of the Bassman right?

I don't know - not an expert but so I've heard.

What I've discovered over the ages is that, for me, feel is more important than tone. Yes, the feel comes from the sound...but I'm talking time domain response vs just frequency response.

I've also discovered that while I can get good and even great tones from "FRFR", turning off cab model and running through a physical guitar cab can reveal details and depth and awesome sauce that I don't get with "FRFR" (how good "FRFR" is depends on what you're using. That problem is pretty much eliminated with a good guitar cab...no fuss)

 

[EOengineer]

Yeah really interesting but makes sense, they are all children of the Bassman right?

The Bassman was the precursor to Marshall’s JTM45, which was effectively a Bassman with British parts and a few very small value changes. The Superlead/Plexi grew out of the JTM45 but became louder, brighter, gainier. JCM 800s build up from that…rinse and repeat.

Lots of modern high gain amps probably call back to some elements of the Bassman design, but there are others..like the early Mesa Mark series amps that were originally Fender Princetons.

I’ll agree with others here that we often dramatically under value the contribution the cab makes, as that’s your final EQ filter via the speakers, plus the impedance curve from the amp and cab combination can dramatically alter the amp response.

This is one of the big, unfortunate limits in Helix. The cab impedance curve is built into the amp models and assumes a certain cab is connected. That curve doesn’t change if you change that cab.

 

[Digital Igloo]

What I've discovered over the ages is that, for me, feel is more important than tone. Yes, the feel comes from the sound...but I'm talking time domain response vs just frequency response.

Yep. Guitar drivers behave very differently from full-frequency drivers, particularly in the time domain. And it's SO EASY to use modelers with real cabs, if that's what it takes to scratch one's itch. There are plenty of legit reasons for not embracing modeling, but sound and feel are not in the list.

The playback system is mission critical.

At this point, I just imagine anyone spouting "modeling sUx0rZ! t0oBz rULe!" with zero mention of their playback system or expectations must be some pimple-faced kid with broken computer speakers in their cement block basement, blaming the modeler for why they sound like butt. Oh, and I also imagine them covered in Cheeto dust:

 

[Progressive_disclosure]

Speaking of playback systems, I usually end up playing either my HX Stomp directly or running my pedalboard into my amp (Fireball 25, which I got thanks to the Helix model of the big brother) with speaker off mode/line out into the HX Stomp for cabs and post FX.

Now for the question: Would I gain anything by getting a separate headphone amp in this scenario? Currently I’m mostly using a pair of Hifiman Sundaras when playing. I have other headphones too but the open back is nicest to my ears. When listening to music I usually power them with a battery-driven headphone amp but than one only takes USB so I can’t attach it to the Stomp directly (right?!).

 

[laxu]

Speaking of playback systems, I usually end up playing either my HX Stomp directly or running my pedalboard into my amp (Fireball 25, which I got thanks to the Helix model of the big brother) with speaker off mode/line out into the HX Stomp for cabs and post FX.

Now for the question: Would I gain anything by getting a separate headphone amp in this scenario? Currently I’m mostly using a pair of Hifiman Sundaras when playing. I have other headphones too but the open back is nicest to my ears. When listening to music I usually power them with a battery-driven headphone amp but than one only takes USB so I can’t attach it to the Stomp directly (right?!).

Do you own an audio interface? Try using it for headphones and plug in the HX Stomp. See if you notice a difference.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Speaking of playback systems, I usually end up playing either my HX Stomp directly or running my pedalboard into my amp (Fireball 25, which I got thanks to the Helix model of the big brother) with speaker off mode/line out into the HX Stomp for cabs and post FX.

Now for the question: Would I gain anything by getting a separate headphone amp in this scenario? Currently I’m mostly using a pair of Hifiman Sundaras when playing. I have other headphones too but the open back is nicest to my ears. When listening to music I usually power them with a battery-driven headphone amp but than one only takes USB so I can’t attach it to the Stomp directly (right?!).

HX Stomp's headphone amp isn't as powerful as Helix's, but it's more forgiving with lower-impedance (consumer and prosumer) cans. In the studio I use a Dangerous D-BOX+ for monitoring, but there isn't a massive difference between its phones jacks (monitoring AES/EBU direct from Helix Rack) and Helix's Rack's front panel phones jack, at least with my Sennheiser HD600s (300 ohm).

 

[bucephalus]

Yep. Guitar drivers behave very differently from full-frequency drivers, particularly in the time domain. And it's SO EASY to use modelers with real cabs, if that's what it takes to scratch one's itch. There are plenty of legit reasons for not embracing modeling, but sound and feel are not in the list.

The playback system is mission critical.

At this point, I just imagine anyone spouting "modeling sUx0rZ! t0oBz rULe!" with zero mention of their playback system or expectations must be some pimple-faced kid with broken computer speakers in their cement block basement, blaming the modeler for why they sound like butt. Oh, and I also imagine them covered in Cheeto dust:

View attachment 37486

He looks a lot like the mods from TOP