Helix Talk

[EOengineer]

I’ll explain why I asked and hope anyone can chime in with helpful advice.

I’ll start by saying the obvious, there’s no right or wrong way. That said, I’m struggling with how to handle the high end of amps and the high-cut on the cabs. You can go full John Cordy and cut everything above 5k on the cabs to get a smooth higher gain tone, but then everything pretty much sounds the same and lacks any and all airiness. Or you can struggle like me on, say, the SLO in balancing the amp’s treble, presence, and highs on the cabs. Around 7k high cut on the cab (which seems to me is what NDSP usually go for) and you get a sweeter high end but it lacks the air of 12k+.

I also mostly play guitar to myself, not with some backing track. My guitars are mostly lower output pickups, which of course adds to the trebly difficulties.

Maybe I should play more often through my PowerCab plus using the speaker engine than through headphones. Perhaps this will give me a better sense of how things “should” sound.

What kind of tones are you going for? It’s not unusual in the mixing world to low pass distorted guitars at anywhere from 5-8khz to help open up space for other elements. On its own it might seem lifeless but usually comes back to life once the mastering engineer starts applying multiband compressors, exciters, etc.

 

[banned]

I’ll explain why I asked and hope anyone can chime in with helpful advice.

I’ll start by saying the obvious, there’s no right or wrong way. That said, I’m struggling with how to handle the high end of amps and the high-cut on the cabs. You can go full John Cordy and cut everything above 5k on the cabs to get a smooth higher gain tone, but then everything pretty much sounds the same and lacks any and all airiness. Or you can struggle like me on, say, the SLO in balancing the amp’s treble, presence, and highs on the cabs. Around 7k high cut on the cab (which seems to me is what NDSP usually go for) and you get a sweeter high end but it lacks the air of 12k+.

I also mostly play guitar to myself, not with some backing track. My guitars are mostly lower output pickups, which of course adds to the trebly difficulties.

Maybe I should play more often through my PowerCab plus using the speaker engine than through headphones. Perhaps this will give me a better sense of how things “should” sound.

Skip the PowerCab entirely - it is not up to par at all. Honestly, not a good product tonally.

Here are two options that will totally transform your experience -

a) Instead of using "FRFR", get a good guitar cab (with good guitar speakers of your choice). Also obtain a solid-state power amp and disable cab modeling / IR entirely on the Helix - run out via the SS power amp to the guitar cab. You will not believe your ears - it is to me, extremely close to an actual amp (I bet 99% would fail a blind test) and sounds SO much better than "FRFR".
b) If you don't want to go the above route, get a L6 Catalyst - don't use any of the onboard amps, run your Helix into the Catalyst (again with cab modeling disabled) using the Poweramp-In option. This doesn't sound as good as a) but is still a very good option and IMHO, FAR superior to "FRFR".

A 100W Catalyst is now just $199 direct from L6

https://reverb.com/item/84840658-line-6-catalyst-100-2-channel-100-watt-1x12-modeling-guitar-combo

Keep in mind if you're using a guitar cab or the Catalyst, room position and room matter big time because of how the sound disperses. So make sure you're playing in a well-treated room / environment. If you play this way, all the beautiful and subtle details of the amp modeling really get highlighted. I can assure you that your problems aren't related to the amp modeling, which is extremely accurate on most modern modelers. Rather, it's the audio reproduction device that's the problem.

 

[fret gunk]

Skip the PowerCab entirely - it is not up to par at all. Honestly, not a good product tonally.

Here are two options that will totally transform your experience -

a) Instead of using ""FRFR"", get a good guitar cab (with good guitar speakers of your choice). Also obtain a solid-state power amp and disable cab modeling / IR entirely on the Helix - run out via the SS power amp to the guitar cab. You will not believe your ears - it is to me, extremely close to an actual amp (I bet 99% would fail a blind test) and sounds SO much better than ""FRFR"".
b) If you don't want to go the above route, get a L6 Catalyst - don't use any of the onboard amps, run your Helix into the Catalyst (again with cab modeling disabled) using the Poweramp-In option. This doesn't sound as good as a) but is still a very good option and IMHO, FAR superior to ""FRFR"".

A 100W Catalyst is now just $199 direct from L6

https://reverb.com/item/84840658-line-6-catalyst-100-2-channel-100-watt-1x12-modeling-guitar-combo

Keep in mind if you're using a guitar cab or the Catalyst, room position and room matter big time because of how the sound disperses. So make sure you're playing in a well-treated room / environment. If you play this way, all the beautiful and subtle details of the amp modeling really get highlighted. I can assure you that your problems aren't related to the amp modeling, which is extremely accurate on most modern modelers. Rather, it's the audio reproduction device that's the problem.

100% agreement from me on option a - I recently got myself a Katana Artist 100 W head specifically for use as a PA into my old 4x12 slantface Marshall cab (T75 speakers).
I'm very happy with what I'm hearing from the Helix (edit: with IR / cab modelling disabled) through that setup, the neighbours maybe not so much ...

 

[pipelineaudio]

Get a katana and put an "FRFR" speaker in it. Then you can do all your acoustic and keyboard and everything with it. I love concentric speakers vs regular PA monitors with a divorced tweeter or that fender fr12 thing. Turbo sound has a concentric wedge that kicks serious ass but it’s heavy.

 

[fret gunk]

100% agreement from me on option a - I recently got myself a Katana Artist 100 W head specifically for use as a PA into my old 4x12 slantface Marshall cab (T75 speakers).
I'm very happy with what I'm hearing from the Helix (edit: with IR / cab modelling disabled) through that setup, the neighbours maybe not so much ...

Downside of course is that relocating the setup requires hiring of multiple cranes and an engineer's check of the prospective supporting floor!

 

[Alex Kenivel]

There's nothing like a guitar cab to reset your expectations of how a cab in the room sounds. It really helps me to dial in a good tone without them.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Epiphany -- please poke in the holes.

Yesterday I picked the Deluxe reverb and almost went to Google to search for "best settings for Deluxe Reverb Helix". But then I thought: That is really useless. There are just too many variables for a "best settings". Maybe for the person posting. But the variables seems to be to much to make generalizations? What speakers? Headphones? What type of guitar are you using? And even if it's the best guitar in the world (Telecaster), how do you use your volume and tone knob? What pick ups? Do you play hard..soft? What style of music? High gain? Edge of break up? Clean? What is clean for you? etc etc etc.

So is it all based on your own ears and preferences? Or is there still a "this is sort of what all [ X ] amp setting have in common"?

This is also what I like around IR's. I built the sound around the IR. So that is stable variable.

 

[Sascha Franck]

So is it all based on your own ears and preferences?

Yes.

Or is there still a "this is sort of what all [ X ] amp setting have in common"?

No.

Serious advice (and not meant to come across instructive or whatever - or maybe just a little bit): You keep asking and asking and asking all these questions as if there was some sort of mythical shortcut. But there isn't. There just isn't.

All sorts of tips have already been posted, the bottomline being that, while some combinations seem to be more successful (which have been posted as well already) than others, you should usually be able to get a decent sound out of pretty much any HX amp&cab block, at least getting you very, very close to the ballpark of what these amps are typically used for. Same goes for the drive pedals.
You can as well check out all amps through the same cab or IR (just make sure they're not having too much of their own sonic fingerprint) at first, that will make things somewhat more consistent for you when sorting out amps.

But that was about it. No more treasures to be found. No LA Comps, no "best IR in the world", no paid presets, no hours of tutorial watching and no whateveronemaythinkof will take you closer. You will however very likely waste a ton of time (and given the amount of similar questions you're asking here, you seem to be on a great path doing just that...).

In other words: It is now about you to just play around. And yes, "play" is meant both as in a) actually playing the damn thing and b) having as much fun as kids playing.

One last tip, though: Create a patch with the looper as the very first thing in the signal chain. Record something into the looper. That way, you can now fully use HX Edit without having to go through the old "hold note/chord, adjust parameter while holding, strum chord again, adjust some more, yaddayaddayadda, rinse and repeat ad nauseum" thing because the looper will do the guitar playing while you can comfortably adjust things. When happy, stop the loop and play, to find out whether you're still happy when playing the patch yourself.
This is my standard routine to create guitar patches ever since I bought my first looper (or rather used the built in one in a Boss delay pedal).

Others than that: See above. It's all up to you now.

 

[banned]

100% agreement from me on option a - I recently got myself a Katana Artist 100 W head specifically for use as a PA into my old 4x12 slantface Marshall cab (T75 speakers).
I'm very happy with what I'm hearing from the Helix (edit: with IR / cab modelling disabled) through that setup, the neighbours maybe not so much ...

Glad that you're enjoying that setup - but to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the T75 speakers. I remember fiddling with my roommates Marshall head for AGES trying to make it sound good with the T75 cab that he had. Then one day, we were at an event and got an opportunity to plug into a cab with (I believe) Greenbacks - Game over. It was a crazy difference and the amp and tone just came alive.

 

[banned]

Epiphany -- please poke in the holes.

Yesterday I picked the Deluxe reverb and almost went to Google to search for "best settings for Deluxe Reverb Helix". But then I thought: That is really useless. There are just too many variables for a "best settings". Maybe for the person posting. But the variables seems to be to much to make generalizations? What speakers? Headphones? What type of guitar are you using? And even if it's the best guitar in the world (Telecaster), how do you use your volume and tone knob? What pick ups? Do you play hard..soft? What style of music? High gain? Edge of break up? Clean? What is clean for you? etc etc etc.

So is it all based on your own ears and preferences? Or is there still a "this is sort of what all [ X ] amp setting have in common"?

This is also what I like around IR's. I built the sound around the IR. So that is stable variable.

Are you new to guitar? It's honestly not that hard at all. It's not about dialing in some other sound out there - it's about dialing in what sounds good to you and what you're going for (which is often informed by things that you've heard in the past).

To start with, for an amp - BMT at 12, Gain as needed, Presence to taste - that's a good starting point.

It's not that complicated - a Tele is the simplest instrument. What do you mean by 'what style of music'? Do you not like a style of music?

 

[laxu]

Epiphany -- please poke in the holes.

Yesterday I picked the Deluxe reverb and almost went to Google to search for "best settings for Deluxe Reverb Helix". But then I thought: That is really useless. There are just too many variables for a "best settings". Maybe for the person posting. But the variables seems to be to much to make generalizations? What speakers? Headphones? What type of guitar are you using? And even if it's the best guitar in the world (Telecaster), how do you use your volume and tone knob? What pick ups? Do you play hard..soft? What style of music? High gain? Edge of break up? Clean? What is clean for you? etc etc etc.

So is it all based on your own ears and preferences? Or is there still a "this is sort of what all [ X ] amp setting have in common"?

This is also what I like around IR's. I built the sound around the IR. So that is stable variable.

I pretty much always adjust any amp to 4 things:

• The guitar. E.g you want different settings for a Tele vs Strat vs Les Paul vs...
• The cab. Greenback vs Jensen vs Alnico Blue/Gold vs V30 etc all need a different approach to amp settings.
• The room. This can be things like reverb, how loud the amp should be, its placement. Headphones need some room reverb, a small room might need the amp to be quiet or it gets painful, a big room you can get away with more but might not want reverb at all because the room itself provides that. Then you have rooms that reverberate a lot, rooms that are pretty dead and everything in between.
• The mix. Throw in some drums and bass whether it's other band members or a backing track, and you likely have to lop off most of the low end that sounded so good when playing on your own. Then you want to push those mids and highs more to cut. It probably sounds like shit on its own but fits right into the mix and sounds great there. You can notice this if you listen to some "guitar only" tracks from famous recordings. They sound nasty, but just fantastic in the mix.

Obviously you'd dial in things differently for blues vs metal but that's a given. But even for all this there's so many subjective matters to consider. Plus different amps do not work in the same way so "I liked the knobs pointed this way" does not work with a different amp. Use your ears instead and wherever the knobs point when it sounds great to you, that's the right setting.

 

[DieSchmalle]

Glad that you're enjoying that setup - but to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the T75 speakers. I remember fiddling with my roommates Marshall head for AGES trying to make it sound good with the T75 cab that he had. Then one day, we were at an event and got an opportunity to plug into a cab with (I believe) Greenbacks - Game over. It was a crazy difference and the amp and tone just came alive.

Find two T75s that sound identical. I mean compare the Helix 4x12 cabs: 1960 T75, MOO)))N T75 and Uber T75 - huge difference.

I happen to have one in my Peavey Bandit that sounds pretty good. There are many Marshall players that swear by their T75 cab. It's hit and miss.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Are you new to guitar? It's honestly not that hard at all. It's not about dialing in some other sound out there - it's about dialing in what sounds good to you and what you're going for (which is often informed by things that you've heard in the past).

To start with, for an amp - BMT at 12, Gain as needed, Presence to taste - that's a good starting point.

It's not that complicated - a Tele is the simplest instrument. What do you mean by 'what style of music'? Do you not like a style of music?

What i meant was that if somebody ask online for “what would be a good setting for a certain amp?” It might make a difference if you play soft rock versus metal what you want your settings to be.

 

[banned]

Find two T75s that sound identical. I mean compare the Helix 4x12 cabs: 1960 T75, MOO)))N T75 and Uber T75 - huge difference.

I happen to have one in my Peavey Bandit that sounds pretty good. There are many Marshall players that swear by their T75 cab. It's hit and miss.

I think you're right - the one that I had access to I didn't care for - but I LOVE early Yngwie tone (I call it 'violin on fire') - and I believe he's a T75 guy. So there's that. Maybe Celestion needs to do the 'definitive edition' reissue.

 

[fret gunk]

Glad that you're enjoying that setup - but to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the T75 speakers. I remember fiddling with my roommates Marshall head for AGES trying to make it sound good with the T75 cab that he had. Then one day, we were at an event and got an opportunity to plug into a cab with (I believe) Greenbacks - Game over. It was a crazy difference and the amp and tone just came alive.

What an a-ha moment that must have been!

I guess that the T75-equipped cab is a nod to history - back when I was carting that thing around to gigs or practice sessions, I was simply not in a position to experiment with different speakers, different amps, different pedals or different guitars. It was a text-book case of dream-meets-reality as far as economics was concerned, and reality always wins out. So it came to be that I stuck with the gear I had - and that is perfectly fine (apologies to Leo).

Nowadays, with the benefits of modelling at my disposal, I would probably go straight to V30's in the physical cab now that I know how they sound, but I'm unlikely to do that now.

So there - I've saved myself the cost of a set of greenbacks, then probably a set of blackbacks, followed by a set of creambacks before landing on V30's. So what's modelling worth to me? I reckon (4 + 4 + 4 + 4) x $250/speaker = $4K (and let's not even talk about swapping out pedals!). But how much have I spent on modellers? Floor + Stomp + CORE + IR-200 + ... + ... = around $6K

 

[Digital Igloo]

Helix in my FB feed is far from anything new, but in a Ray Ban/Meta commercial?

 

[Sleezy E]

Helix in my FB feed is far from anything new, but in a Ray Ban/Meta commercial?

I've seen that commercial a dozen times and never noticed

 

[sleewell]

what is your current favorite boost?


lined up a test preset last night tried almost all of them. i think the pillars is my favorite and had been using the horizon drive for a while.

 

[eggpl@nt]

what is your current favorite boost?


lined up a test preset last night tried almost all of them. i think the pillars is my favorite and had been using the horizon drive for a while.

Frankly, this is a weak spot in Helix IMHO. The only two models I like for boosting amps are the same you just mentioned - Pillars and Horizon. I struggle with even the usual suspects (Tube Screamer and SD-1) in the Helix. They just don't feel right to me.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I love the pillars and the teemah